tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1752646546511186140.post9223360106689882872..comments2023-08-23T03:51:55.709-05:00Comments on Muslim Bushido: Demographics is Destiny: What Went Wrong with Sunni ("Orthodox") Black MuslimsUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger43125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1752646546511186140.post-70813027311210543272009-01-26T18:24:00.000-06:002009-01-26T18:24:00.000-06:00Greetings, Felicity!Yes, many of these Arab and Pa...Greetings, Felicity!<BR/><BR/>Yes, many of these Arab and Pakistani immigrants are a MENACE to the countries that let them in. On many levels, and in many ways. It's unfortunate.<BR/><BR/>Peace, blessings and solidarity.Khadijahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07732325133964607276noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1752646546511186140.post-11713278049537520802009-01-26T13:34:00.000-06:002009-01-26T13:34:00.000-06:00When I read this post, I shouted out thank you Jes...When I read this post, I shouted out thank you Jesus, this what I suspected a while ago, but as a Christian, I never had any evidence. When you ask for wisdom, the Lord surely gives it. These people are dangerous, dangerous, and this is the same thing the African man who was a muslim say 20 years ago on television, you let these people in, they bring confusion and he said that he is not killing 93 of his Christian relations or 5 of his Christian children or his Christian wife. He was warning about Arabs influcence in Nigeria. Again, I although I do feel some compassion for the Palestinians, look at the death dealers. Black Pakistinis have been in Pakistan, since 100AD, there are only a million and even after that time, they can only be road sweepers, look what is happening in Dafur. <BR/>20 years ago, a Christian Ghanian said at work, 'If the British goverment knew what the Pakistanis are going, they would never let them into the country'. I sometimes, wish black people can really realise that even though we do suffer racism and prejudice in European countries, we can still achieve, in those other countries. God help us! and cockroach eat your dinner, if you ever get dinner.Felicityhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02640532435058567373noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1752646546511186140.post-65293132541406732102009-01-17T01:45:00.000-06:002009-01-17T01:45:00.000-06:00For the curious, here are a couple of books on pro...For the curious, here are a couple of books on progressive Islamic thought:<BR/><BR/><EM>Progressive Muslims: On Justice, Gender, and Pluralism</EM> edited by Omid Safi. <BR/><BR/><EM>On Being a Muslim: Finding a Religious Path in the World Today</EM> by Farid Esack.<BR/><BR/>Peace, blessings and solidarity.Khadijahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07732325133964607276noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1752646546511186140.post-84696685424563396452009-01-16T17:46:00.000-06:002009-01-16T17:46:00.000-06:00Hello there, Roslyn!No harm, no foul about assumin...Hello there, Roslyn!<BR/><BR/>No harm, no foul about assuming that I would be a "scold" about zina. LOL! I know I'm violating Black folks' protocol by saying this but: <STRONG>Profiles get started for a reason.</STRONG> What you experienced when discussing non-marital sexuality is the <EM>typical</EM> response from most Muslims.<BR/><BR/>My attitudes are not mainstream. I'm what others who feel as I do have named themselves "progressive" Muslims. Those Muslims who think along similar lines with me believe in: social justice, gender justice, and pluralism. We believe that these manifestations of justice are what God wishes for all of humanity.<BR/><BR/>I believe that bringing forth all of these various forms of justice is the ultimate purpose of the instructions (rules) contained in scripture.<BR/><BR/>The problem that I have with most "typical" Muslims is that they're so caught up in literally following what they <EM>believe</EM> are the religious rules that they have forgotten the underlying purpose of the rules: justice, and the realization of human potential. All of which is <STRONG>impossible</STRONG> under oppressive conditions. Be they family, social, gender, or societal oppression.<BR/><BR/><STRONG>BLINDLY following what you believe are the religious rules ALWAYS leads to unintended cruelty.</STRONG> <BR/><BR/>Let's take the zina example. When I hear Muslim Black women loudly stating that there should never be any sex outside marriage, I can tell that they haven't thought any of this through.<BR/><BR/>When I bring up the fact that (under current circumstances) strictly enforcing/encouraging this rule would lead to 70% of Black women NEVER experiencing sex in their entire lives, they seem shocked. Like they've never seriously considered the consequences of their stated positions.<BR/><BR/>I ask them, is condemning 70% of Black women to NEVER experiencing sex the end result that you think God wants?<BR/><BR/>When typical Muslims foam at the mouth about gays and lesbians, I ask the following questions: <BR/><BR/>Since gays can't legally marry each other, what would you have them do? Remain celibate their entire lives? Would you have them marry those of the opposite sex while living in the closet? After all, what "straight" person would <EM>knowingly</EM> marry a person who was struggling with their sexual orientation? Do you realize that these demonization campaigns forces gays underground, and creates pressures to live on the "down low"? [Which creates a series of other problems.]<BR/><BR/>The final question is whether or not THIS sequence of events is what they think God wants.<BR/><BR/>To sum it up, I believe in rules, including religious rules. I ALSO believe that before implementing/advocating rules, one should consider the following: What type of harm was the rule meant to prevent or mitigate? Will strictly enforcing this rule accomplish that purpose? Does enforcing the rule create an even greater injury to the people involved?<BR/><BR/><STRONG>As far as I'm concerned, failure to consider these questions when advocating or enforcing religious rules shows a reckless disregard for human life and human dignity.</STRONG><BR/><BR/>Back to the zina: <BR/><BR/>To me, the underlying point seems to be about increasing the odds that a sexual relationship would NOT bring harm to the people involved (including any children that are produced by the sexual relationship). <BR/><BR/><EM>This</EM> seems to be the larger point of rules about fornication. NOT making sure that everybody has a marriage license before they have sex.<BR/><BR/>About marriage to non-Black Muslim men:<BR/><BR/>I would compare it to the situation with marriage to other non-Black men (including White men). There are plenty of racists among these ranks. There are plenty of non-racist men among these ranks.<BR/><BR/>The other thing that I've observed is that non-Black Muslim men <EM>know</EM> that Western women are NOT the same as women from their countries of origin. Including Western Muslim women. <BR/><BR/>The non-Black Muslim men that want slave-wives (just like "back home") would not pursue marriage with a Western woman in the first place. [I'm talking about a sincere desire for marriage, NOT green-card seekers. Which come in all colors and religions.]<BR/><BR/>It's similar to what several Mexican-American women explained to me: Mexican-American guys that marry White women KNOW not to expect or demand the same sort of "maid/servant" service from Anglo wives that they would expect from Latinas. <BR/><BR/>The odds are that it's just not going to happen like that. And any Mexican guy who really wants "traditional" Mexican maid/servant/wife behavior needs to stick to Latina women.<BR/><BR/>Not all Latino men are vicious male chauvinists. Not all immigrant-origin, observant Muslim men are vicious male chauvinists.<BR/><BR/>One caveat: The different expectations of a Western woman only apply as long as you don't present yourself as a doormat! Then you place yourself in the same category as many of the women "back home."<BR/><BR/>Peace, blessings and solidarity.Khadijahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07732325133964607276noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1752646546511186140.post-84555108313220537852009-01-16T09:25:00.000-06:002009-01-16T09:25:00.000-06:00When will they learn to seek marriage with non-Bla...<B>When will they learn to seek marriage with non-Black Muslim men?</B><BR/><BR/>I knew I'd missed something. I understand why you wouldn't want black women to marry these damaged black men who've been co-opted by immigrant Muslims. But, if black women marry immigrant Muslim men wouldn't they be co-opted as well? Or are you more concerned about them being 'gamed?' It would seem to me that the men would have the same racist mindset that you're finding so appalling with the immigrant Sunni imams. Or am I missing something?roslynholcombhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03423350501595717113noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1752646546511186140.post-77166076304389536522009-01-16T09:20:00.000-06:002009-01-16T09:20:00.000-06:00My apologies for assuming that you would be a 'sco...My apologies for assuming that you would be a 'scold' about zina. I talked to several Muslim women about the issue and from what I read, and from conversations with them I got the impression that I would get that reaction from any Muslim. One was horrified that I would even consider such a thing, and indicated it could never happen. She liked my story, but wondered if I could leave the zina out. Yeah, I could, but no one would ever publish it. The only romances that get published these days without premarital sex are Inspirationals, and I'm pretty sure I'd never get one about a Muslim woman published, though if I write another one I might try. Anyway, I stereotyped, and I apologize. <BR/><BR/>I must say, when I read about these temporary marriages I assumed that they would be a rarity under extraordinary circumstances. Such as when someone is away from home for work, or perhaps widows who don't wish to marry again. <BR/><BR/>It sounds like these people are just using them to get around the prohibition against zina. <BR/><BR/>I've always wondered about the intersectionality of Islam and Arabic culture, and how it seems almost impossible at times to separate the two. Again, my research is definitely of the cursory variety, but I've never understood why it was necessary to adapt another culture's dress and language in order to comply with Islamic laws. As I understand it both sexes are admonished to adopt 'modest' clothing. I don't understand why that can't still be Western clothes if one is from a Western culture. It's just odd to me that when I see Muslim women from Eastern cultures, India, Indonesia they look markedly different from women from Arab cultures. Yet, Muslim women, particularly black Muslim women seem to look as Arab as anyone in the KSA.<BR/><BR/>Another thing I've wondered about is this issue of there being more black Muslim women than men. I'm wondering how that came about, especially if most of these women converted in order to please a man. Is it simply part of the fact that there are more black women available than black men? It's always struck me as odd that there are more Western women converting to Islam than men. In my story the man converts, but I understand that's a rarity, especially for an American man, but hey, it's fiction.roslynholcombhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03423350501595717113noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1752646546511186140.post-29357705516271046922009-01-16T00:23:00.000-06:002009-01-16T00:23:00.000-06:00Ha ha! Your "If you want to be a...." list is so f...Ha ha! Your "If you want to be a...." list is so funny.<BR/><BR/>I can see it all being true. That's what sad.<BR/><BR/>Just for fairness...this abdication of responsiblity under the guise of piousness isn't just limited to black Muslims. <BR/><BR/>A so-called Christian BM I know made his wife take the kids to daycare at 6am ON THE BUS, then she'd bus to work, do the same on the way home, fall in the house by 7pm, cook, clean, put kids to bed all while HE KEPT THE CAR ALL DAY. <BR/><BR/>He did not have a job, BTW. She was the sole breadwinner.<BR/><BR/><BR/>Apparently he was told by God not to work, and instead to go on a "spiritual quest" that year. <BR/><BR/>That silly broad wife of his shoulda seen thru that. Ain't nobody need to drive around all day on no 'spiritual quest'!!!That's translation for 'I got me one on the side and need the car to drive to her pad all while keeping you so busy as to avoid detection.'<BR/><BR/>Wife actually got up and gave thanks for her husband's "questing" in testimony service. The church all clapped and said, "amen"! <BR/><BR/>I fell over trying not to laugh at this hustle.<BR/><BR/>Of course I was branded as 'unloving', but heck...I's a simple gal. What I know?<BR/><BR/>JJJJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05908877713350128695noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1752646546511186140.post-58638057285161344972009-01-15T22:29:00.000-06:002009-01-15T22:29:00.000-06:00@JJ:You made reference to "chicken fries and 'who ...@JJ:<BR/><BR/>You made reference to <EM>"chicken fries and 'who took da money'. "</EM><BR/><BR/>{chuckling}<BR/><BR/>Thank you for providing a really good chuckle! I'm glad you found my blog too!<BR/><BR/>Peace, blessings and solidarity.Khadijahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07732325133964607276noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1752646546511186140.post-2660436033083232162009-01-15T22:22:00.000-06:002009-01-15T22:22:00.000-06:00Greetings, JJ!Thank you for your kind words about ...Greetings, JJ!<BR/><BR/>Thank you for your kind words about the blog. I truly appreciate it.<BR/><BR/>You zeroed right in on the real deal when you said, <EM>"But I guess if they were not attracted by a religion offering discipline, financial empowerment and structure (like the NOI), but instead wanted a religious environment where they were free to appear pious on one hand and still 'do they thang' on the other- this is all to be expected."</EM><BR/><BR/>This is it in a nutshell. These Sunni Muslim colored folks have found pious-sounding excuses for the same behaviors some of them were engaged in before:<BR/><BR/><STRONG>If you want to be a player:</STRONG> Call yourself a Moozlim, and get you 4 "wives."<BR/><BR/><STRONG>If you <EM>really</EM> want to be a _________-hound:</STRONG> Then get you some "temporary wives" in addition to the semi-permanent ones you already have.<BR/><BR/><STRONG>If you aspire to be a pimp, in addition to all of the above:</STRONG> Refuse to work and call yourself a Moozlim "student of religious knowledge" while collecting your various "wives'" public aid checks.<BR/><BR/><STRONG>If you were a lazy, no-working welfare queen before:</STRONG> Start wearing a head scarf and call yourself a stay at home mom who's (poorly) homeschooling her children.<BR/><BR/><STRONG>If you allowed men to use you as a "jump off" before:</STRONG> Start wearing a head scarf and call yourself a "wife" in a "plural marriage" or "temporary marriage."<BR/><BR/>And the list goes on ad infinitum. {seething}<BR/><BR/>Peace, blessings and solidarity.Khadijahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07732325133964607276noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1752646546511186140.post-39655393578839197392009-01-15T21:56:00.000-06:002009-01-15T21:56:00.000-06:00Hello there, Aphrodite!There's a verse in the Qura...Hello there, Aphrodite!<BR/><BR/>There's a verse in the Quran that says that God won't change the condition of a people until they change what is in their own hearts.<BR/><BR/>This is true. Black folks are a good example of this. The details change, but the underlying pattern remains the same because we are still the self-hating, self-disrespecting people we were 50 years ago, 100 years ago, etc.<BR/><BR/>This underlying pattern with the immigrant Muslims has come back around full circle because we still don't have any ethnic self-respect as a people. The underlying pattern with non-Black merchants is the same for the same reason. Only the specific non-Black ethnic groups that are exploiting us change and rotate.<BR/><BR/>In previous decades, Jewish merchants were the ones exploiting us. Now it's Koreans and Arabs. In previous decades, we were begging and pleading with White political overlords. Now, in places like Los Angeles and Miami, we're begging and pleading with Latino political overlords.<BR/><BR/><STRONG>The only things that remain constant are our lack of self-respect; and our place at the bottom of every social index.</STRONG> Everybody else is making progress. [Usually at the expense of AAs.]<BR/><BR/>Peace, blessings and solidarity.Khadijahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07732325133964607276noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1752646546511186140.post-10418268378159240722009-01-15T21:17:00.000-06:002009-01-15T21:17:00.000-06:00Hello Khadija,I had no idea that this went back to...Hello Khadija,<BR/><BR/>I had no idea that this went back to the 1930's-40's. <BR/><BR/><BR/>The more I look and learn - the more I am perplexed.<BR/><BR/>Maybe some people don't know that history? But even still perhaps someone would be able to see where things are headed - re exploitation.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1752646546511186140.post-37043691393074348072009-01-15T21:12:00.000-06:002009-01-15T21:12:00.000-06:00"The most shameful behavior that I saw taking plac..."The most shameful behavior that I saw taking place was the fact that so many people took what the Pastor said as "the gospel." I honestly do not think many of the people who attended the church read their bible, or even spoke to God on a daily/hourly basis. I learned very quickly what the Pastor said goes, and NO ONE was supposed to be allowed to question it his authority."<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>I think that is all too common. You have to have video to get some people to look critically at a minister and even then - people will say we have all sinned and fallen short...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1752646546511186140.post-70258730159046759922009-01-15T20:09:00.000-06:002009-01-15T20:09:00.000-06:00Greetings, Sister Seeking/Miriam!You didn't accept...Greetings, Sister Seeking/Miriam!<BR/><BR/><EM>You</EM> didn't accept Islam to please a man, but the reality is that a LARGE percentage of AA Muslim women did. As one sister said, they "became Muslim for a man." Which usually leads to a bad situation where "Islam" for the woman becomes whatever her huzzband says it is. Which provides the fast track to exploitation.<BR/><BR/>You made a very good point when you noted that,<EM>"Another issue is the brothers and sisters that were mentally stable PRIOR to converting but then ended up becoming sick AFTER conversion...<BR/><BR/>...I’ve met AA’s from solid, stable AA families who are middle class and a few who were upper class--in the end the community destabilized them and their newly created families. Of course their families are angry when they see their child in distress and their grand children in distress…"</EM><BR/><BR/>This is one of several reasons why (as I told DJ Black Adam) the more non-Muslim Black folks see of Sunni Black Muslims, the more they will learn to HATE us. We are earning deep-seated enmity by our behavior. <BR/><BR/>The immigrants' have earned a great deal of enmity by their funky, ungrateful attitudes (with an America that provided them refuge from their tyrants back home). As BAMs, <EM>we're</EM> about to get our comeuppance. Soon.<BR/><BR/>I don't think this situation is so much about mental illness. [Although there is mental illness everywhere, including houses of worship.] I think that this is primarily about EVIL.<BR/>_____________________<BR/><BR/>Greetings, Roslyn!<BR/><BR/>I'm not a "scold" about non-marital sexuality. LOL! I'm more concerned about the ethics of how sexual partners treat each other.<BR/><BR/>I believe that it is <EM>preferable</EM> for sex to take place in the context of a marriage (or a committed partnership in the case of lesbians and gays). <BR/><BR/>I believe that sex taking place in the context of a marriage (or committed partnership for gays/lesbians) increases the odds of it being respectful. Even though I believe these things, I'm <EM>not</EM> a scold about zina. <STRONG>Marriage does NOT guarantee respectful, considerate treatment. Just look at the "marriages" that Abdur-Rahman is discussing!</STRONG><BR/><BR/>I'm more concerned about ethical expressions of sexuality, and power disparities between sexual partners than any other consideration.<BR/><BR/>You said, <EM>"I know that you've attributed their willingness to be co-opted by foreigners to a lack of self-esteem and self-hatred, but I'm wondering if there's not another factor in play as well: Hatred of America."</EM><BR/><BR/>My response: <BR/><BR/>I believe that most roads with these Sunni Black Muslims leads back to immigrant domination and influence. Which is only possible because of a lack of ethnic self-respect and self-confidence. Not so much hatred of America. It's not like they hate or hated America based upon their own independent thought prior to encountering the immigrants. <BR/><BR/><STRONG>I have the feeling that most of these Sunni Black Muslims were totally APOLITICAL before the immigrants trained them to focus on Palestine, Kashmir, and Chechnya.</STRONG> <BR/><BR/>I have the feeling that these were BM who read nothing except the sports pages in the newspapers. And read the sports pages before reading the front page. People who were NOT keeping track of American foreign policy. People who never even heard of Kashmir before.<BR/><BR/>These Sunni Black Muslims don't seem to have any independent opinions about anything! <EM>These Sunni Blacks only hate whoever the immigrants hate. And only for the same reasons as the immigrants."</EM><BR/><BR/>They are mostly parrots with no thoughts of their own.<BR/><BR/>Ah...yes. I remember those misadventures from Jill Nelson's book <EM>Straight, No Chaser.</EM> I also really enjoyed her book <EM>Volunteer Slavery.</EM><BR/>_______________________<BR/><BR/>Hello there, Evia!<BR/><BR/>You said, <EM>Khadija, the problem is that bw are not willing to run OR reform the black church or anything that bm have any involvement in because bw don't want to desert bm ministers even when the women know that the minister is talking "stuff." Bw are constantly feeling sorry for bm. I hear this a lot. This is a BIG problem."</EM><BR/><BR/>Yes, this behavior pattern is a huge problem. It's also a death sentence for those BW who engage in it! Spiritual death, emotional death, and in some cases, physical death. The BW who refuse to either run from, OR reform, the oppressive things they participate in are DOOMED.<BR/><BR/>Peace, blessings and solidarity.Khadijahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07732325133964607276noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1752646546511186140.post-40095999477266484812009-01-15T19:02:00.000-06:002009-01-15T19:02:00.000-06:00But as I noted before, simply running from these r...<I>But as I noted before, simply running from these rotten and dead places really isn't enough.</I><BR/><BR/>Khadija, the problem is that bw are not willing to run OR reform the black church or anything that bm have any involvement in because bw don't want to desert bm ministers even when the women know that the minister is talking "stuff." Bw are constantly feeling sorry for bm. I hear this a lot. This is a BIG problem.<BR/><BR/> This pity drives a lot of the pathology in the bc, the black church, and in black social circles. Most bw reading this KNOW this, but most won't ever talk about it because so many bw feel so sorry for bm.Eviahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06606364424958560351noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1752646546511186140.post-16819419756990139762009-01-15T18:55:00.000-06:002009-01-15T18:55:00.000-06:00I've been doing some, albeit cursory research, abo...I've been doing some, albeit cursory research, about Islam for a book I'm writing at the moment. The heroine is a black North African Muslim woman. (I'm pretty sure you wouldn't approve as it's a romance and there is definitely zina involved.)<BR/><BR/>I understood, roughly the differences between Shia and Sunni Muslims, but I had no idea that Black Muslim community here in the States had such a problem. <BR/><BR/>I know that you've attributed their willingness to be co-opted by foreigners to a lack of self-esteem and self-hatred, but I'm wondering if there's not another factor in play as well: Hatred of America. I remember all the commentary about 'chickens coming home to roost' after 9/11 and some black people saying that they'd be glad to Saddam Hussein attack America. I looked at these fools and shook my head. I think sometimes in their hatred for all things American, they forget that they live here, as do presumably their loved ones. <BR/><BR/>I don't know if they're utterly clueless to the fact that Arabs created the African slave trade. I was aware of this and explored it more while doing research for my book. There's still a great deal of racism against blacks in many Arab countries, yet we see blacks embrace these people and giving them a carte blanche. It's really bizarre. <BR/><BR/>As for the polygamy issue, in Jill Nelson's <I>Straight, No Chaser</I>, she talks about her continuous quest for a black nationalist movement, and how her dreams have always been shattered by this issue. I've actually (jokingly) said on my blog a couple of times that I could use another wife (or two), especially if, as Islam teaches, my husband would have to provide her with her own house! But it seems to me that the notion of Muslim polygamy is unworkable for all but the very wealthiest people. Certainly most black people don't fall in this category. So, instead, they want to cobble together a polyglot mess of various beliefs and call it 'Islamic.' <BR/><BR/>I suspect that most of the men who want more than one wife aren't really aren't interested in being real husbands to them, otherwise it's not something they'd embrace so eagerly. Being a husband is hard work, being one to more than one woman must be overwhelming.roslynholcombhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03423350501595717113noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1752646546511186140.post-34141367210893097762009-01-15T18:35:00.000-06:002009-01-15T18:35:00.000-06:00@mrleexslaveIt's nice to see some one from the NOI...@mrleexslave<BR/><BR/>It's nice to see some one from the NOI comment on this subject. I've been listening to the NOI's Sunday sermons, and I hear such a PROFOUND difference in content versus the so called sunni sermons.<BR/><BR/>I'm tired of hearing about Iran, Palestine, and Chechea every Friday.<BR/><BR/>SalaamAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1752646546511186140.post-76802135567315742362009-01-15T18:32:00.000-06:002009-01-15T18:32:00.000-06:00Salaam Alaikum,First things first:I DO want to dra...Salaam Alaikum,<BR/><BR/>First things first:<BR/><BR/>I DO want to draw nearer to Allah (God). I did not convert to get married; I did not convert to run away from my past; and I sure in the heck didn’t covert for some political ideology. I personally believe that every one expresses their faith in a different way: some are traditionalists; some are naturalists; some are activists; and some are artistic. I think all can be healthy, and valid ways to draw nearer to Allah. I believe that all people should be free to choose how they express their devotion, and obedience to Allah. I DO enjoy the five prayers; I do enjoy fasting; I do enjoy reading the Qur’an; I DO enjoy giving charity; and I DO enjoy attending dhikr from time to time. I also believe that having a personal relationship with Allah is what gives me strength, hope, compassion, humility, simplicity, and an ability to discern. That’s me. I can be sitting in the park, and a butter fly land on my arm--I see Allah’s mercy and majesty in that creature. Instantly, I’m grateful, and ENJOY the signs of Allah’s mercy all around me. That is the faith I began with.<BR/><BR/>Khadija, do you know what I believe the real crime is? The tragedy? In the Sunni Bam community? Our lack of ethics; our lack of values; and our lack of humanity. If you read Surah Baqarah or Surah Al Momenoon personal responsibility is a COMMAND. There is so much emphasis on politics, international problems, and sectarianism that character, dignity, honor, grace, BASIC HUMANITY is just neglected. My mind CAN NOT comprehend how some one can pray five times day, and than turn around and beat up their wife or throw their children out on the street? Where are your ethics? Your morals? Your values? Your honor? Your dignity? If our so called leadership were honest, truthful, trustworthy, sincere people who honored their oath as a clergy man or woman why would the callous state of BAM marriages become an epidemic? I often wondered where were the matured BAM women and men like you--I’m glad you shared what you called old values. But now I know, they have passed away or perhaps have become after thoughts in their local jummahs.<BR/><BR/>And then another issue that is rarely brought in when our dysfunction is discussed is the large segment of our community that have undiagnosed mental illness. Another issue is the brothers and sisters that were mentally stable PRIOR to converting but then ended up becoming sick AFTER conversion. I spoke about this on ARM’s new post. I won’t repeat myself but I do want to say that it is important to pay attention to last my statement sister. I’ve met AA’s from solid, stable AA families who are middle class and a few who were upper class--in the end the community destabilized them and their newly created families. Of course their families are angry when they see their child in distress and their grand children in distress… I’ll stop there.<BR/><BR/>SalaamAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1752646546511186140.post-90731685959264776332009-01-15T18:18:00.000-06:002009-01-15T18:18:00.000-06:00Lisa,I believe that there are probably plenty of h...Lisa,<BR/><BR/>I believe that there are probably plenty of healthy churches for women to attend if they themselves knew God- but many don't. I know because I found a great one place to fellowship after my run-in with the other church. <BR/><BR/>But as I stated I think that a large part of the problem is that many people are not in touch with their God..or spend a great amount of time discerning his voice.DeStouethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02411518412229632680noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1752646546511186140.post-74319119584176358522009-01-15T17:39:00.000-06:002009-01-15T17:39:00.000-06:00Greetings, Lisa!I also have concerns about BW simp...Greetings, Lisa!<BR/><BR/>I also have concerns about BW simply running from the church and the mosque. I agree that ALL people need to flee what you've called "church mafias," and what I'll call "house of horrors mosques."<BR/><BR/>But as I noted before, simply running from these rotten and dead places really isn't enough. Our failure to build and/or failure to find legitimate, healthy houses of worship leaves us impoverished in so many ways. Both as individuals, and as a Black collective.<BR/><BR/>Peace, blessings and solidarity.Khadijahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07732325133964607276noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1752646546511186140.post-14351426492955534572009-01-15T17:09:00.000-06:002009-01-15T17:09:00.000-06:00Greetings Khadija!Thank you for this post!! I have...Greetings Khadija!<BR/><BR/>Thank you for this post!! I have been mulling over it for a few days!<BR/><BR/>I would have no problem working with N.O.I. on some issues that relate to the uplift of the black community but I do not embrace their spiritual teachings. I do agree with some of their political ideologies about black accountability in black progress.<BR/><BR/>@ Destouet<BR/><BR/>I had a discussion at my think tank about four months ago about <A HREF="http://blackwomenblowthetrumpet.blogspot.com/2008/08/disarming-and-dismantling-church-mafia.html" REL="nofollow">"Disarmbing and Dismantling The Church Mafia"</A>. I drew a distinction between the legitimate black church and the church mafias that are masquerading as real churches.<BR/><BR/>Unfortunately, I see that many people who tell me that they have "left" the church have actually left a church mafia and they were ASSUMING that every group of people who are in a church are a church mafia.<BR/><BR/>I don't believe that black women should run from the black church. They finance the black church. They make up 80% of the attendance on Sunday in black churches. I think that black women should stop financially supporting church mafia organizations and then pretending that these mafias are real churches that promote Christ. It is irresponsible and dangerous for them to continue to do so.<BR/><BR/>Peace, blessings and DUNAMIS!<BR/>LisaLISA VAZQUEZhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13583559303233985031noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1752646546511186140.post-63370052797404173852009-01-15T13:38:00.000-06:002009-01-15T13:38:00.000-06:00Since we have been discussing some of the differen...Since we have been discussing some of the different places black women need to run from, I'd like to add black churches to that list. <BR/><BR/>In my opinion, church is only as good as the people that attend it. Now and days, almost all of the wrong people are attending it church. And since most people do not have their own relationship with God, since they do not read their bible, or listen to their "intuition" they are clearly being led astray.DeStouethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02411518412229632680noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1752646546511186140.post-4727067621562482732009-01-15T13:08:00.000-06:002009-01-15T13:08:00.000-06:00"These men know that many women go to church/mosqu..."These men know that many women go to church/mosque because they are in pain and need comfort of some kind. They know that women tend to let their guard down faster with church/mosque men than with men out in "the world."<BR/><BR/>I saw a lot of this kind of behavior when I lived in the South. I really don't care to rehash many of the experiences I was witness to when I attended a church for a few months because it would be pointless. <BR/><BR/>Being a native of Philadelphia, I was familiar with church but I had never attended one on a regular. When my family moved to the South, I decided to give it a try but was D-I-S-G-U-S-T-E-D by some of the blatant evils that preoccupied the church. It was too much for me to handle so eventually I stopped attending. <BR/><BR/>The most shameful behavior that I saw taking place was the fact that so many people took what the Pastor said as "the gospel." I honestly do not think many of the people who attended the church read their bible, or even spoke to God on a daily/hourly basis. I learned very quickly what the Pastor said goes, and NO ONE was supposed to be allowed to question it his authority.DeStouethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02411518412229632680noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1752646546511186140.post-82874732864289982232009-01-14T19:31:00.000-06:002009-01-14T19:31:00.000-06:00Hello Khadija,I am speechless at this post. It se...Hello Khadija,<BR/><BR/><BR/>I am speechless at this post. <BR/><BR/><BR/>It seems that ATR are trending this way as well so I wonder if any religions are functional when it comes to Blacks. <BR/><BR/><BR/>There are some in ATR in the US that are starting polygamous cult like sections when even a well respected female chief from Nigeria in the religion has spoken out against AA's trying to imitate this practice. <BR/><BR/><BR/>I have had issues with finding teachers mentors in the US bc Black nationalism has overtaken some factions. <BR/><BR/>Then there are factions of non blacks who refuse to acknowledge that racism or sexism exists and they have clients/mentees that are black and female and their issues aren't even acknowledged at all. Or they are anti African.<BR/><BR/><BR/>Then you have people who blend the religion Blacks tend to take Christian/Islamic beliefs with a splash of nationalism and blend while non blacks tend to take catholicism/new age/wicca/hindu/voudoun/celtic and blend. <BR/><BR/><BR/>I have been tinkering with going to Africa, but with the native yoruba that I have met it seems that Islam or Christianity has a wide and deep influence on them- making even some anti ATR. I hope that there are still functional people who practice traditional religion somewhere. <BR/><BR/><BR/>One of the reasons I was drawn to my religion was bc of the divine feminine and the balance there. Now there are people who are trying to limit women- what they can do- how much they can learn. <BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>"As she stated, predatory men KNOW about many women's suffering. Predatory men know a woman's points of weakness better than she does. These predatory men have figured out that the church/mosque is the perfect hunting ground to find women to exploit.<BR/><BR/>These men know that many women go to church/mosque because they are in pain and need comfort of some kind. They know that women tend to let their guard down faster with church/mosque men than with men out in "the world.""<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>I can remember when I was still a Christian and I was searching for a church i had an old BM warn me of this in so many words. He told me to be careful.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1752646546511186140.post-42860962555224752622009-01-14T18:53:00.000-06:002009-01-14T18:53:00.000-06:00Hello there, Evia!You said, "And lately, I've been...Hello there, Evia!<BR/><BR/>You said, <EM>"And lately, I've been running into AA women who are looking for what they call a ***Godly man***. I didn't know what they were talking about for almost 6 months. <BR/><BR/>Finally, I figured out that they're looking for a man who talks LOTS of religious Christian doctrine with fervor and goes to church on a regular basis or is a minister, etc. The botoom line is that these women expect for the church to keep the man in line (keep him from cheating, beating them, drinking, drugging, gambling, etc.)."</EM><BR/><BR/><STRONG>The pity is that many of these women haven't quite figured out that there are many Black men who specialize in being "church/mosque predators."</STRONG> The BW who does the "Ask Alexyss" videos on YouTube did a video about church predators. [Warning: she is extremely vulgar and uses non-stop profanity.]<BR/><BR/><STRONG>As she stated, predatory men KNOW about many women's suffering. Predatory men know a woman's points of weakness better than she does. These predatory men have figured out that the church/mosque is the <EM>perfect</EM> hunting ground to find women to exploit.</STRONG> <BR/><BR/>These men know that many women go to church/mosque because they are in pain and need comfort of some kind. They know that women tend to let their guard down faster with church/mosque men than with men out in "the world." <BR/><BR/><STRONG>They know that many women mistakenly believe that they are somehow safe in the church/mosque.</STRONG><BR/><BR/>They know that just a bit of religious talk, coupled with women's human needs, will often get them into lonely and religious women's beds. They know that the religious-induced guilt and/or embarrassment of non-marital sex will prevent many of these women from raising a fuss when the man discards them like a used tissue.<BR/><BR/><STRONG>{long sigh}</STRONG><BR/><BR/>Peace, blessings and solidarity.Khadijahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07732325133964607276noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1752646546511186140.post-76892762337041214402009-01-14T09:02:00.000-06:002009-01-14T09:02:00.000-06:00The main reason BW are so 'religious' is become we...<I>The main reason BW are so 'religious' is become we are <B>lonely, dependent, and convinced that a divine force has to intervene to help us because noone else will.</B> It is far past time for BW to instead spend their time, money, energy helping themselves and demanding good mates, good jobs, and good health. These religious institutions can take care of themselves.</I><BR/><BR/>EXACTLY! And lately, I've been running into AA women who are looking for what they call a ***Godly man***. I didn't know what they were talking about for almost 6 months. Finally, I figured out that they're looking for a man who talks LOTS of religious Christian doctrine with fervor and goes to church on a regular basis or is a minister, etc. The botoom line is that these women expect for the church to keep the man in line (keep him from cheating, beating them, drinking, drugging, gambling, etc.). In other words, they're looking for a man with strong morals and self discipline!!! When I pointed out that there are many highly moral men who don't go to church, I was indirectly branded a "heathen." LOL!!! So I've been distancing myself from those bw. SMH<BR/><BR/><I>These Catholic schools provide an education that is of such quality that MANY non-Catholics (including AAs) are eagerly paying hefty tuitions to enroll their children.<BR/><BR/>We miss out on this, as well as other benefits, by having rotten and dead religious institutions. We continue to miss out when we simply flee these rotten institutions without building anything better. </I><BR/><BR/>Khadija, these religious organizations like the Catholics, Quakers, 7-Day Adventists, etc. run some excellent schools and they're given fantastic tax breaks and other breaks from the government because they are schools and non-profits. The rest of black folks are paying taxes to finance those tax breaks, yet their own children (who don't attend those schools) are receiving a shoddy education in the public schools.<BR/><BR/>Public school education is really the pits because the terrible behavior of a small percentage of the children in MANY public schools takes up IMMENSE time, energy and other critical resources and the rest of the poor children who are trying to learn don't get a chance to learn!! I would NEVER allow one of my children to go a public school. I've even told my sons they'd better not send my GRANDCHILDREN to public schools. LOL!<BR/><BR/>And regarding all of these folks who talk STRONG about "unity," I don't pay them any attention because it doesn't cost them anything to talk. If I were going to start a private organization or effort with anyone, they would have to put down some MONEY--like about $500+ on the table before I'd even begin to take them seriously about doing anything with them. This is really about the cost of membership in some of these black private clubs and organizations like Jack and Jill, etc. In my experience, when you start talking cold, hard cash to black folks, many of the non-serious folks will disappear. LOL!Eviahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06606364424958560351noreply@blogger.com