Over time, I've noticed several recurring, disturbing patterns during conversations at many BW's empowerment blogs.
Some commenters are so (justifiably) disgusted with the many crimes and failures of BM that they are eager to support ANY statement that tongue-lashes BM. No matter what the source or motivation for these statements. This gradually leads to supporting the words and actions of racists. This leads to becoming mirror images of the Negro male celebrities who were so focused on their hatred of Black women that they were eager to validate comments made by a racist like Don Imus.
Some commenters are (justifiably) angry with mass AA culture due to their experiences of being victimized by the Acting Black crew. As a result, they have knee-jerk opposition to the very idea of any sort of AA self-respect, AA pride, or AA unity. This gradually leads to supporting the words and actions of racists.
Some commenters are (justifiably) frustrated by their interactions with still-brainwashed AA women. This leads to calling such women "mammies." This leads to being as VICIOUS and hateful toward these already-oppressed BW as any "hair flipper" that I've described in the past.
Some commenters are so in love with their non-Black boyfriends/husbands and half-Black children that they've lost all sight or comprehension of BLACK interests. And they promote the interests of their half-Black children (and other half-Blacks) at the expense of BLACK people's interests.
Some commenters are foreign-origin Blacks (West Indians and Africans) who come to these forums as voyeurs to insult AA men (and AAs in general) under the guise of supporting BW. These West Indian and African commenters rarely mention the many dysfunctions of their own societies. Or their own oppression as women within these societies. I had to ban one such foreign-origin voyeur from this site.
Let me emphasize that I am NOT a cheek-turning Christian. Islam recognizes that retaliation serves a healthy purpose---to discourage further wrongdoing. So I would never instruct anybody to forgive or forget the wrongs that were done to them. However, the Quran commands believers to NOT let their justified anger lead to committing injustice. Revenge must be proportionate to the evil that was done. And it must be directed against the guilty party.
All of the behaviors I've mentioned above are as destructive as the original evil (the oppression of AA women) that these blogs are fighting. Those who engage in these behaviors are becoming the mirror image of that which they claim to be resisting.
[With the exception of the foreign Black voyeurs I mentioned who are simply bigots, bullies and cowards attacking already wounded people. They are too cowardly to vent their frustrations on Whites, so they come to AAs with their garbage.]
Greetings Khadija!
ReplyDeleteI really need to mention this open letter at my blog forum...thank you for this!
I have had some black men who show up at my blog to try and refute the discussion. They aren't there to add anything of substance.
A few foreigners have tried to tell ME that I don't know what's going on in my own country with black people...and of course you know my response..."pardon me, but how LONG have you even been in the United States?!" *LOL*
There are plenty of black women who visit empowerment blogs who do not recognize when enemies of BM are simply spouting off negativity against black men because they know that deeply wounded women can't think clearly most of the time. I do not validate enemies of BM... I am not an enemy of BM...and I don't bash BM at my forum. I am exceedingly glad to see that you don't either.
At the same time, it's acceptable for us to allow black women to share their experiences with black men in our forums to add context to the issues we are highlighting.
It is important that you have set the bar very high in the conversations that occur here. I continue to tell participants at my blog..."if you can not state your positions WITHOUT adding negative comments about me or others in the forum then you can not comment here." It is amazing how many people just can't do this to save their lives....
{shaking my head}
I hope you will write more about how the foreign-origin blacks relate to black Americans in the context of critiquing black issues because there is a lot that people need to prepare for that I don't feel they are fully observant of.
Just for those who don't know the Bible... God CAN AND WILL AND DOES instructs us to rebuke when encountering ungodliness. I have no problems doing so.
Peace, blessings and DUNAMIS!
Lisa
Nuff Respect for this Khadija! I agree with you. I have been reading and not responding and have seen what you are speaking of. I have also seen what Rev. Lisa is speaking of as well in her forum. I have Black foreigners in my family and I have had to rebuff them on several occasions. At which time they are able to see the truth of U.S. Black people's condition. Often they speak from an angle of IGNORance, and I mean literally ignoring other American Black people and our history. Often these foreign Blacks have little to no contact with Black Americans other than a some contact with the "permanent underclass", all the while refusing to see these same conditions exist on their own islands. Fortunately, I have the opportunity to re-educate them, however the blog arena is not the place for taking the time educate when they can certainly educate themselves.
ReplyDeleteI agree with your comments.
ReplyDeleteYes there are those other "black people" who seem to make it a habit to denigrade AA people. But, will not say one bad word about their homeland and all of the problems that their former countrymen are still experiencing. I have also noticed that most will not say anything bad in reference to other race people who have or had invaded their countries.
Most of these people just skip that part of their country's past and present.
lois
Some commenters are so in love with their non-Black boyfriends/husbands and half-Black children that they've lost all sight or comprehension of BLACK interests. And they promote the interests of their half-Black children (and other half-Blacks) at the expense of BLACK people's interests.--Khadija
ReplyDeleteInteresting. I have a somewhat similar POV. While I support black women's IR blogs in principle, there is one thing that frustrates me. Some black women who have been romantically and platonically involved with white men (myself included) have had negative experiences in addition to good ones. It appears that such experiences are ignored in favor of pushing a myth that white and other nonblack men are flawless. The fact is, there are plenty of white men who adhere to the anti-bw mantra.
I'm just concerned about the risk of bw trading in one idol (AA men) for another (wm). Again, I'm not against these blogs as I finally decided to link to them (although I have not placed them in my special section of bw empowerment blogs).
There's no need to worship men of any race. I'm all about bw empowerment not male worship. Each bw's man is her business and separate from bw empowerment, IMO.
These nuances are important to be able to recognize. Some women just haven't had the chance to have good experiences with BM or other Black people as a whole. In other forums these things aren't addressed at all so it's not hard to figure out if the blog host doesn't steer the conversation and moderate appropriately things can go awry. Also we all have our own journeys and the path gets bumpy. There are many aspects to working through internal motivations and being in a public forum where discussions bring up painful or challenging situations. We also have to navigate through sometimes murky scenarios as we are all at different places, come with different perspectives as well as the need to recognize there may be those who don't have our best interests in mind
ReplyDeleteIt's easy to look down upon those one has deemed 'not like me'. It's an old tactic that provides a quick-fix defense to protect the raw wounds you're carrying. Typically the wounds were caused by someone who looks like you but you could never 'lay hands on' that person or speak against the cultural setting in which the harm was allowed to play out...so you act 'hincty' (snobby with an edge) against those who bear racial similarity to those who hurt you, but are ethnically different. This ethnic difference is pounced upon and used in innumerous ways to think or behave derisively towards the other party or group. Afterall, If you came out talking against your own culture-they'd tear you up.
ReplyDeleteAnyways, when this dynamic plays out in social settings it comes off as completely phony and ridiculous.
And we as black people find the most incredible, oft-times invisible criteria by which to elevate ourselves over another black person.
It's laughable.
But I've done it too.
I've had quite a few comments to make regarding our folks from the Islands, from Africa. How the men run around. How there is no such thing as monogamy. How the women are so rude and angry. How they act out with such slack behaviour.
Guess what my ethnicity is?
African American.
Can't all the same tags apply?
I mean, if that's the lens through which you're looking, surely I can find shining examples of the same crummy behaviour in my own culture!
But it goes both ways...I've also been nailed with nasty comments from blacks of other ethnicities who were also trying to raise themselves up at my expense.
In more recent years, I've gotten past this mess. My black friends are from all ethnicities and age categories.
A deep conversation I had with an older female friend from Ghana ended up with both of us being shocked at how identical our family dysfunction was. She played the same familial role as I did...taught to her a generation before me and in West Africa.
The toxic markers were all the same: blaming, scapegoating, betrayal, theivery, disrespect...and one would never guess such a beautiful, dignified woman had been subjected to all this garbage. (I hope you could say the same for me too.)
It was only after we had slowly circled each other, checked each other out, experienced some initial positive interactions with each other and both slowly dropped our guards that we both realized that we had survived the same pain, the same struggles and were simply two women trying to rise above what they'd been given.
The "I'm higher than you are" garbage left the building, never to return.
I have had similar breakthroughs w/ my sisters of Jamaican, Trinidadian and Nigerian descent.
I won't deny the comfort I always feel being around my own community.
But I also won't go beaking off at another black culture like my culture is the best and yours is garbage and I know it all and you know nothing cuz I'm African American.
SO...to those who have been showing up on the blogs spewing this gunk I'd like to say this:
"Drop your defense mechanism. You know there are wounds, pains, injustices and embarassments in your culture and family too. And it has effected you personally. Upholding the 'status quo of blacks when in public', is not working for many AA women anymore. I suspect its not really working all that great for you either. Release your air of superiority and get down to the business of putting a name and an explanation to all the poisonous patterns that our respective cultures propogate.
It won't change for you or your children until you do.
Believe it or not, we're in the same boat, baby."
That's my take on it.
JJ
Greetings, Lormarie!
ReplyDeleteFor me, the easiest answer is to just tell the plain truth. The WHOLE truth, including the historical origins of certain situations. Across the board.
I don't think what we're talking about is so much the result of idol worship of non-Black men. I think that it's the result of how horrible Black/Black "relationships" have become for BW.
For many women, after years of being treated like less than nothing, even mediocre treatment looks like paradise. And so they sing the praises of the "paradise" that they have found after years of navigating through the woman-denigrating hells of mass AA culture.
Here's my take on the specifics of this:
Non-Black men tend to be raised and socialized to want to be protectors and providers for women. They are also more likely to have been raised to know how to pretend and ACT as if they have some manners.
Most AA women have encountered and observed non-stop SAVAGE behavior from AA men:
From being groped and frisked while walking down the street. From the catcalls that BW ignore at risk of their very lives [ex. the young lady shot because she would not give some Negroes in a passing car her phone number]. To the demands and expectations for immediate sex. From Negroes wanting and expecting women to "go Dutch" on their so-called dates. From Negroes refusing to offer marriage under any circumstances.
The list of common, savage male behavior that is accepted and celebrated within mass AA culture is endless.
In this context, even a manipulative, dishonest non-Black man who pretends to treat a woman with a smidgen of courtesy starts to look like a knight in shining armor by comparison. In this context, a decent, loving non-Black man begins to look like manna from heaven by comparison.
_______________________
Greetings, Faith!
You said, "We also have to navigate through sometimes murky scenarios as we are all at different places, come with different perspectives as well as the need to recognize there may be those who don't have our best interests in mind."
Exactly! There are icebergs hidden in the murky waters!
Peace, blessings and solidarity.
Greetings, JJ!
ReplyDeleteWhat you've mentioned is another source of my irritation with the foreign Black voyeurs at these blogs: They are hindering our process of much-needed introspection.
When they jump in and pounce on the cultural vulnerabilities that AAs are discussing and trying to work through, it discourages any further introspection.
This has got to stop. And it will stop when we stop tolerating it.
Peace, blessings and solidarity.
Khadija and Lormarie said:
ReplyDelete"Some commenters are so in love with their non-Black boyfriends/husbands and half-Black children that they've lost all sight or comprehension of BLACK interests. And they promote the interests of their half-Black children (and other half-Blacks) at the expense of BLACK people's interests.--Khadija
Interesting. I have a somewhat similar POV. While I support black women's IR blogs in principle, there is one thing that frustrates me. Some black women who have been romantically and platonically involved with white men (myself included) have had negative experiences in addition to good ones. It appears that such experiences are ignored in favor of pushing a myth that white and other nonblack men are flawless. The fact is, there are plenty of white men who adhere to the anti-bw mantra.
I'm just concerned about the risk of bw trading in one idol (AA men) for another (wm). "-Lormarie
I have been thinking about this exact thing for a while now! In reading Lisa's blog (when I can open it...I have a computer prob) and this one, I've come to the conclusion that many of the points and suggestions raised really do have to be processed by healthy, educated and evolved beings in order to be properly implemented.
If not, a sister could stroll away with the idea that the answers to her relationship sorrow with black men will be remedied by taking up with a white man.
NOT SO!!
In fact, where I live in Canada I can site countless examples of BW who were kicked to the curb (literally & emotionally) by the black men in their lives only to simplistically conclude a white man would be the answer.
So here they are, sitting up here with some of the most disgusting white men you'd never want to see. I mean ugly, broke, drunk, fat, toothless, uneducated, smelly....(what a horrid picture for you all, I'm sorry). But I have to see it all the time so welcome to my nightmare!
They traded in one demon for another. (of a diff color)
Your mate is a relfection of you. And if you're broke down and messed up, you will always end up with some broken down dude regardless of if you switch to the other side or not.
Many of the prinicples and concepts written about on these blogs are:
a) not to be taken lightly and
b) not to be responded to with a simplistic knee-jerk reaction of "so lemme go find me a white man and finally get mine".
I've also grown up knowing first hand the evil that white men are capable of as well... please hear me when I say, "don't go trading one devil for another!"
JJ
Thank you for this post Khadija, this really needed to be said. I enjoy reading many IR blogs, but I am sometimes put off but the way some of the women vilify AA men and glorify White men. I also notice that every other type of non-Black man is dismissed with vague and sweeping generalizations. Anything to clear a path straight to the White man.
ReplyDeleteWhat I love about your blog is that you are OBJECTIVE, FAIR, BALANCED and PRINCIPLED. You are not afraid to call out anyone for any reason.
You said:
"Just like some AAs have finally started to wise up about the folly of supporting Mexican illegal immigrants."
Can you please elaborate on the above? Or is there another post addressing this issue? I'm assuming it has to do with reciprocity. Thank you.
Khadija, it's good that you've brought these issues to the forefront because I want to mention a few things.
ReplyDeleteRe:
Black females who are COLLABORATING with the above enemies,
I'm often accused of being a bw 'sleeping with the enemy' and a "traitor," and it's assumed that I dated wm and married a wm because I've been hurt by a bm. I can't speak for other bw in IR relationships or marriages, but I've never been hurt by a bm. I've never been hurt by ANY man because I've always put distance between myself and DBRs, NVs, Lvs, etc. males or any man ASAP who showed me he had those tendencies--of every group and this is what I advocate that all bw do. Women must vet ALL men.
The main problem I see is that many bw who I've observed, heard, about and read about do not KNOW how to vet men or that they don't take the time to do it or both--for various reasons(s). However, no matter how many times I've said that, I get notes everyday saying that I'm trying to keep bw away from ALL bm and that I'm 'procuring' bw for wm. SMH
Your mate is a relfection of you. And if you're broke down and messed up, you will always end up with some broken down dude regardless of if you switch to the other side or not.
I agree with this and I actually advocate that people should mate at their own level--whatever that level is--or higher if possible when it comes to women. However, in most cases if you have a broke-down man or woman who is trying to mate with someone on a higher level, things are usually going to either not work or they will fall apart and do damage. What I see among AAs is that there is a serious pattern where lots of broke-down bm are resentful of bw who are on a higher level when these women don't want to be bothered with them. I also notice that these males tend to shy away from broke-down bw on bw who are on their level.
Many people also accuse me of never talking about white racism. That is not the purpose of my site. There are many other sites where black folks talk about racism 24-7.
And then I also have the people, who are apparently unable to process the content of my site, yet cannot stay away from my site. LOL! Instead of not reading, they want me to stop writing.
Also, I have NEVER encouraged bw to show ANY interest towards racist wm or those they even think may be racist. So I just want to set the record straight on that. I also have NEVER encouraged bw to be interested in DBR/NV/LV wm, yet folks keep talking to me about those kinds of men. Common sense would tell any woman to steer clear of ALL men like that. The reason I focus so much on DBR
BLACK men is because these are the males that most AA women encounter the MOST on the relationship front. If AA women were dealing MOSTLY with Chinese men, I'd be warning them to stay away from DBR Chinese men.
Re white racist men, in some of my earlier essays, I talked about how bw who may have those concerns should talk openly and honestly with ANY romantically interested wm about racism. Yet, I also get accused of idolizing wm and never saying bad stuff about them. I don't get uncomfortable talking about racism to whites or about sexism to men and I don't shy away from that when it's called for.
However, I believe that all of these accusations are a deliberate attempt to gag me (and any other bw who's thinking about speaking out), but that won't happen with me, or not until I get tired.
Re: black foreigners, I had a long and corrosive debate with a bf foreigner last year over on the Black Girls Rule blog. I believe that some black foreigners (continental Africans and West Indians) who I've met are fine and others have issues. That being said, I had a wonderful marriage to a black foreigner and he continues to be a very good friend.
Re biracialism, my paternal grandmother taught me to never get into debates with others about hotbed topics like religion and politics--because those are usually based on hard core beliefs that have an emotional investment. Therefore, there'll be all heat and no light. LOL! She was wise, so I don't usually go there. But I have added two other categories to the list of topics that cause intense heat--but virtually no light--those of "class" and "biracialism." Many AAs have so much PAIN (and no opportunity for healing) around those issues until there is usually little to no progress made in discussing them.
As an aside, as a result of some of the enlightening discussions here about "class," I decided to step out of my "class" recently offline and had a nasty experience with hater-type bw who made it clear that they resent me because I live well and they don't. There are MAJOR wounds re class and biracialism that are still cause hemorrhaging. I think that AAs are a long way from being able to talk about class and biracialism in a productive way. So I'm going to follow my grandmom's advice about those hotbed issues from now on.
I will say this: I've been accused of not talking about having bi-racial children enough. I don't exactly understand why people want ME to talk about biracial children. First of all, I can't talk about every issue, but I also believe that children have issues MAINLY because the adults around them pass on their issues. Therefore, I focus on adults.
The reason I focus so much on DBR
ReplyDeleteBLACK men is because these are the males that most AA women encounter the MOST on the relationship front. If AA women were dealing MOSTLY with Chinese men, I'd be warning them to stay away from DBR Chinese men.--Evia
Point understood. Khadija also made an excellent point about the differences in the way wm are socialized. Upbringing/socialization makes a big difference in how a man relates to women.
Whatever the case, I understand your rationale for focusing on DBR black men for the most part. If that's what we're dealing with, that's what we have to talk about.
Lastly, thank you for ignoring the haters. I've posted on a blog by one of your opponents and the sentiments are outrageous. Keep doing what you are doing.
Greetings, Aisha!
ReplyDeleteThank you for your kind words about the blog. I truly appreciate it. I try to be fair and principled, but like all humans, I don't always succeed.
I don't believe that there is any such thing as "objectivity." We all bring our experiences to the table. My point is that it's best to tell the plain truth across the board. Including the origin of how certain situations came to be. Telling the WHOLE truth about situations increases the odds of a just result.
Also, I'm saying things the blunt way in this conversation ("demons") because we are talking about EVIL. Let's be really clear about that.
You said, "I also notice that every other type of non-Black man is dismissed with vague and sweeping generalizations. Anything to clear a path straight to the White man."
Well, again there are multiple layers with this; and multiple things going on:
In my view, on a practical level, the odds are much better in terms of finding a decent, lovable, non-racist, non-colorist White man than other men of color.
First of all, there are simply more White men than other types of men in this country. Therefore, the odds are better for that numerical reason alone.
Second, many (if not most) "men of color" are AS color-struck as BM; and many of them are AS racist as racist White men. The Black folks who are stuck on "anybody except a White man" are ignoring this fact.
So for these two reasons, it makes more sense for BW to fish in the largest possible pool of potential husbands. A BW who excludes WM from her pool of potential husbands is shooting herself in the foot.
While quoting me, you said: You said:
"'Just like some AAs have finally started to wise up about the folly of supporting Mexican illegal immigrants.'
Can you please elaborate on the above? Or is there another post addressing this issue? I'm assuming it has to do with reciprocity."
I talked about how AAs' blind support of people of color immigration (particularly that of Latino illegal aliens) has done great damage to our interests in several posts. I also mentioned how foreign-origin Blacks are REPLACING AAs on many college campuses, while reaping the benefits (diversity admissions, scholarships, etc.) of dead AA civil right martyrs.
I discussed all of this during the Charity Begins at Home series. You can look up the "charity begins at home" tag on the search feature over the blog masthead to find those posts.
This is another angle to my irritation with these foreign Black anti-AA bigots: They are ingrates:
OUR AA Civil Rights Movement led to, and influenced, the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965. Prior to OUR AA Civil Rights Movement, White Americans were quite clear about keeping foreign Blacks (and other non-Europeans) OUT of this country!
__________________
Greetings, Evia!
Yep. All of this has been bubbling beneath the surface of many of these conversations.
You said, "I'm often accused of being a bw 'sleeping with the enemy' and a "traitor," and it's assumed that I dated wm and married a wm because I've been hurt by a bm."
Again, there are multiple layers and multiple things going on with all of this.
What you're describing with the "sleeping with the enemy" slur is just some more BM protectionism. I'm curious about how these nuts define "enemies." As far as I'm concerned, "enemies" are anybody and everybody who's harming BW and Black children. Under that definition, the vast majority of enemies are predatory BM! Folks need to get real about this. And start telling the truth.
You are one the blessed few AA women who have managed to avoid and escape the indoctrination that leads to being involved in exploitative, non-reciprocal relationships with NV and LV BM. Unfortunately, your experience is not a "mainstream" one for AA women.
The vast majority of AA women have been restricting themselves to the viciously anti-BW HELL DIMENSIONS of dating within all-Black social settings. It often takes burn-out from navigating these all-Black hell zones for many BW to re-think their indoctrination for "nothing but a BM."
You said, "The main problem I see is that many bw who I've observed, heard, about and read about do not KNOW how to vet men or that they don't take the time to do it or both--for various reasons(s)."
I agree. One of the unspoken dangers for many AA women when it comes to dating non-Black men is that they have NO sense of what a NORMAL MAN'S behavior should look like. Most AA women are used to AA male SAVAGES. This makes any man who even has a veneer of manners look like a saint. This makes it harder for such AA women to screen and vet non-Black men. Their standards and expectations are just set too low based upon their experiences in the all-Black hell dimension.
You said, "However, no matter how many times I've said that, I get notes everyday saying that I'm trying to keep bw away from ALL bm and that I'm 'procuring' bw for wm. SMH"
As you know, the people who are saying this are acting in bad faith. ALL they care about is making sure that there's a pool of single and lonely AA women available for AA men to exploit as a "Booty Call Corps." BM predators LOVE the current situation! They don't want it to change. If more BW expand their dating pool to increase their odds of finding decent and loving husbands, there won't be as many BW available for them to exploit and abuse.
You said, "What I see among AAs is that there is a serious pattern where lots of broke-down bm are resentful of bw who are on a higher level when these women don't want to be bothered with them. I also notice that these males tend to shy away from broke-down bw on bw who are on their level."
Oh no...DeShawn does NOT want his peer, Sheniqua. And Jailbird DeShawn does NOT want his peer, Jailbird Sheniqua. He has been encouraged to feel ENTITLED to Helene or Lauren. And Helene and Lauren have often been culturally browbeat into NOT rejecting DeShawn out of hand, as they should.
Not to mention that if Helene and Lauren are restricting themselves to "nothing but a BM," they are more likely to settle for a DeShawn. For many reasons that I need not go into (we all know the dynamics of this type of settling).
I believe that all of these problems, numerical imbalances, and injustices within the all-Black dating pool will NATURALLY sort themselves out when more BW remove themselves from this toxic all-Black pool.
At its core, this is a supply/demand problem. There are simply numerically too many desperate BW interacting with an ever-shrinking pool of increasingly spoiled, and abusive BM.
You said, "Many people also accuse me of never talking about white racism. That is not the purpose of my site. There are many other sites where black folks talk about racism 24-7."
This is crazy, and reflects a massive dose of denial and dishonesty. At this point, 99.99% of AAs' life-threatening problems are INTERNAL.
You said, "Also, I have NEVER encouraged bw to show ANY interest towards racist wm or those they even think may be racist. So I just want to set the record straight on that."
Anybody with basic reading comprehension skills already knows this. Your "record" has ALWAYS been straight about this. Anybody who says otherwise is a LIAR who just wants to keep AA women in their current position of being exploited by AA men. Full stop. Period.
You said, "I believe that some black foreigners (continental Africans and West Indians) who I've met are fine and others have issues."
I agree. Although, truth be told, most of my interactions with such persons have been negative. As a mass group, the only category of foreign Blacks that don't seem to have these "we want to step on, and feel superior to AAs" issues that I've encountered are Panamanians.
When I review my memories of all interactions with foreign-origin Blacks, they've generally behaved in a "normal" way with AAs. If there are issues/problems with them, they have been purely personality-based.
I hear you about the wisdom of mostly refraining from "all heat and no light" conversations! LOL! I prefer to do the same. My issue is that I just can't let demons slide! LOL! I want to fight and warn against any and every type of monster that is preying on my people. I want to do my best to follow the Quranic command for Muslims to encourage what is good and fight what is wrong.
The "Don't You Dare Call Me 'Black'" biracials (and their enablers like Ne-Yo, Yung Berg, and the one Black parent of these biracial creatures, etc.) are another set of demons that are victimizing AA women and girls. These creatures are working to break the spirits of AA women and girls. Specifically, this is where a large portion of the "hair-flipping" enemies come from.
I feel compelled to fight them, along with the rest of the demons. [I know, I know...I've got these compulsions...LOL!]
You said, "I will say this: I've been accused of not talking about having bi-racial children enough. I don't exactly understand why people want ME to talk about biracial children. First of all, I can't talk about every issue, but I also believe that children have issues MAINLY because the adults around them pass on their issues. Therefore, I focus on adults."
These "Don't You Dare Call Me 'Black'" biracial demons are the result of a self-hating Black parent who latched onto a non-Black spouse. These demons have these issues because of their parents RAISED them to have these issues.
Furthermore, I truly resent confused BW who want to convert BLACK blog discussions into BIRACIAL blog discussions. There are so very few places of refuge and sanctuary for BW and girls. Why are these chicks so frantic to give OUR spaces to other people? It's crazy. I won't let anybody do that here.
This blog is a safe space for BLACK women and girls. NOT biracial, bicultural, multicultural, Cablanasian women and girls. They already have Ne-Yo, Yung Berg, the NFL, NBA, BET, and the vast majority of BM to support them. They don't need the use of my tiny platform too. My little platform is reserved for US.
Peace, blessings and solidarity.
Khadija said:
ReplyDeleteIn this context, even a manipulative, dishonest non-Black man who pretends to treat a woman with a smidgen of courtesy starts to look like a knight in shining armor by comparison. In this context, a decent, loving non-Black man begins to look like manna from heaven by comparison.
My response:
This is SO true. Thank god I haven't fallen for these non-black men pretenders and I when I meet them I RUN LOL (because of my pro-bm indoctrination I put these men through a lot...maybe too much...I'm still sorting that out. LOL); but I have at least one ex-friend (long story) who falls for these type of non-black men ALL the time. I use to say to her, "You would never put up with that from a Black man." I don't remember her response.
I think it goes back to what Evia said. You have to vet ALL men; but you also need to know how to vet. I also agree that BW MUST include white men in their dating pool if they want to increase their chances of finding a mate. Remember, it is going to be a challenge to find someone with values similar to your values in the best and most ideal circumstances. But under the current dating circumstances for black women that difficulty increases many times over. So I recommend doing everything you can to increase your odds. I've already discussed my strategy. It has increased my dating numbers; but I'm still searching for THE ONE. LOL It's an uphill battle; but at least I'm trying.
Beverly said:
ReplyDelete"You have to vet ALL men; but you also need to know how to vet."
This right here is more to the crux of the issue.
As black women we usually do not have clear, qualitative criteria by which to vet ANY man effectively.
And we don't know that we should be doing so!
(Heck, until the whole Obama election I didn't even know what that term meant.)
But seriously. How many of us as youngsters witnessed older BW doing such a thing in order to choose a mate who was ideal for them? This is a nearly unknown practice.
Which tells me that throughout the generations we haven't really felt we had the power or influence to put a man through a personal seletion process.
IMO, this is a direct manifestation from slavery where we didn't have much control over which men chose us- for sex, for childbearing or for marriage. I have heard many accounts where the older men in the family ultimately influenced who a young woman would marry.
In fact, this tradition carried forth in my family well into my grandmother's time. The women obediently married who the patriarch commanded them to, often with horrible abuse as the outcome.
Of course, during previous eras survival was key and thank God we DID survive!
I wonder today if that same detached, powerless approach to choosing a mate is yet another unchallenged carryover from that dark time?
JJ
Greetings, Beverly!
ReplyDeleteYou said, "Thank god I haven't fallen for these non-black men pretenders and I when I meet them I RUN LOL (because of my pro-bm indoctrination I put these men through a lot...maybe too much...I'm still sorting that out. LOL)..."
Yep. This is one area where the "Beware of White Men" programming can sometimes ACCIDENTALLY serve a somewhat protective purpose under our current circumstances.
But this (holding non-Black men to a higher standard than one does BM) is a stop-gap partial solution at best. The bottom line is that AA women are going to have to learn how to screen and vet men in general.
We're going to have to learn to STOP grading BM on a curve. We're going to have to learn how to evaluate what non-Black men are doing based upon normal, HEALTHY, and TRUE MANHOOD standards. NOT in comparison to "Defective and Deficient DeShawn."
____________________
Hello there, JJ!
You said, "But seriously. How many of us as youngsters witnessed older BW doing such a thing in order to choose a mate who was ideal for them? This is a nearly unknown practice.
Which tells me that throughout the generations we haven't really felt we had the power or influence to put a man through a personal seletion process."
I more or less disagree. This is not what my mother's and grandmothers' lives looked like. Granted, there were problems (rampant sexism, poverty, etc.). But from listening to them talk about their lives, I never had the feeling that there was a MASS situation where AA women felt powerless to screen and eliminate men.
Now, many women in my mother's and grandmothers' times made bad choices when it came to men. But they still had plenty of choices. And plenty of decent BM to choose from.
[Incidentally, my paternal grandfather was a womanizer and a dirtbag. He's been dead for over 20 years, and my Dad still hates him with a passion to this day. But my paternal grandmother still had choices. She was very light-skinned(as light-skinned as my grandfather), and had many BM chasing her.
She stayed with my grandfather out of economic need. But also because she didn't want to remarry and put another man over her children. If she didn't had kids, she probably would have divorced him and remarried.]
This changed after the 1960s. For a variety of reasons. But I think the core reason is that AA men stopped enforcing standards of decent behavior from other AA men.
Let's be real: Many men (in general, and across cultures) would like to "dog" large numbers of women. The only thing that keeps this sort of behavior in check is OTHER MEN.
Healthy, REAL MEN won't let another male mistreat and "dog" their daughters, sisters, nieces, female cousins, etc. This is why there were "shotgun marriages" until the 1960s in the AA community. AA men would not allow some Negro to impregnate and then abandon their daughter, sister, niece, cousin, etc.
[Incidentally, I learned as an adult that one of my aunts had a "shotgun wedding." It seems that the Negro who became my uncle by marriage originally did not want to marry my aunt. Whatever. Apparently, Granddaddy didn't play that.
For the curious/nosy, this is a maternal aunt. Although, I will note that even my paternal grandfather ("dirtbag") did NOT tolerate anybody mistreating his daughter!]
Healthy, REAL MEN won't allow some Negro to molest their daughter, sister, niece, cousin, etc. If a REAL MAN finds out that Chester the Child Molester did something like that to a girl from his bloodline, Chester is in big trouble.
In my Dad's age group and older, "Chester" had to remain undercover and unknown. Or else he risked ending up face-down-dead in an alley. Or Chester "came up missing." Previous generations of AA men would have caused Ar-ruh Kelly to "come up missing" a long, long time ago.
On several occasions when I was a teenager, I saw my Dad, my uncles, my adult BM cousins, and my adult BM neighbors regulate, calibrate, and (if needed) physically adjust the attitudes of younger Black males who weren't "acting right."
What happened among the AA collective is that AA men stopped policing the behavior of other AA males. AA men don't "regulate" anymore. Anything goes. This is the underlying reason why it all fell apart.
Peace, blessings and solidarity.
Lawdy khadija Lol!
ReplyDeleteSpeak on it lol!
This might be off the topic slightly, but I think many bw just want to 'talk'. They have spent years being prevented from voicing even legitimate claims and being told these were invalid, they should never entertain such ideas, etc that there is just an explosion of discussion across black female blogs and those of 'allies'. A lot of it is bubbling up from years of supression, of seeing what they knew they saw but never being allowed to comment. Some of it no doubt is not ordered and placed into PC frameworks etc.
I have faith however that bw are generally sensible people, are reserved and have moral boundaries.
i think there will be a settling down period when there will be a lot more structure and a 'right' framework to our whole discussions around empowernment. At the moment I think a lot of it is catarthic excercise.
Greetings, Halima!
ReplyDeleteYou said, "This might be off the topic slightly, but I think many bw just want to 'talk'. They have spent years being prevented from voicing even legitimate claims and being told these were invalid, they should never entertain such ideas, etc that there is just an explosion of discussion across black female blogs and those of 'allies'.
A lot of it is bubbling up from years of supression, of seeing what they knew they saw but never being allowed to comment....At the moment I think a lot of it is catarthic excercise."
Oh no, it's not off-topic at all. This is a large part of what's going on here. I do understand it. I try to be sensitive to the fact that people are at various stages of self-rescue about these issues. [I've come to hate the word "healing" in these sorts of contexts! LOL!]
One of my concerns is that folks engaging in certain types of unjust, loose talk has the effect of "pulling up the ladder" so that nobody after them can escape. Here's what I mean:
By siding with White racists' statements about BM, commenters are delegitimizing the entire discourse in the eyes of still-confused BW.
By endlessly promoting the interests of self-proclaimed biracials, commenters are delegitimizing the entire discourse in the eyes of still-confused BW.
By vehemently objecting to any hint of Black pride, Black self-respect and Black unity, commenters are delegitimizing the entire discourse in the eyes of still-confused BW.
ALL of this behavior plays into the way that DBRbm choose to slander the struggle for abundant life for BW. This sort of behavior plays into DBRbm's efforts to convince still-confused BW that demanding reciprocity is a form of self-hating, BLACK-HATING betrayal.
This is very similar to how making "White people are doing 'it' too" arguments fits into White racists' public relations strategies to delegitimize our struggles.
These are my practical concerns about such behavior. My bigger concern relates to my undying obsession with justice---LOL! This sort of behavior is simply WRONG; and it aids and abets other manifestations of EVIL.
Back to practical matters:
The struggle in support of joyful, abundant life for AA women and girls CANNOT afford to let this sort of behavior to go unchecked. It's a liability to our struggle. Every struggle requires discipline to succeed. Everyone who is a sincere supporter needs to take care that their actions and statements help instead of hinder their struggle.
Peace, blessings and solidarity.
" I also mentioned how foreign-origin Blacks are REPLACING AAs on many college campuses, while reaping the benefits (diversity admissions, scholarships, etc.) of dead AA civil right martyrs."
ReplyDeleteand
May I add some are (ex. my nigerian supervisor) thumbing her nose up in AA's faces as she and her children and extented family members are taking advantage of programs that were intented for AA's or at least Americans who were born in this country.
One day I was talking with my supervisor about how bp are always protesting something and maybe it is time for us to let others do the protesting. My supervisor anxiously says to me, "Oh, no keep protesting; but...for the life of me I cannot seem to remember the last part. Later that same day I began thinking about what she had said about how AA people should keep protesting and not one word about Nigerians protesting for any thing. They and others simply enjoy the benefits of others.
a.f.
Greetings, A.F.!
ReplyDeleteHere's part of what I wrote in Part 1 of Charity Should Begin at Home:
"We want to believe that we are in "coalitions" with other people.
Umm. . . No. What has happened is that other ethnic groups have harnessed our energy and resources in support of their agendas. When African-Americans participate in coalitions, we allow others to capitalize off of our unique history and the unique debt that is owed to us.
Resources that should go to us as restitution for the specific harms that have been done to us in this country are siphoned off by other groups.
The African-American Civil Rights Movement created resources that should have been used as restitution for the centuries of slavery, followed by the century of official Jim Crow segregation that our people have suffered right here. Instead, these resources have been converted into vague "diversity" programs that benefit everybody else.
There's a story entitled, "Study: Universities prefer foreign black students" from the March 7, 2007 issue of The Daily Princetonian. Here's the link: www.dailyprincetonian.com/archives/2007/03/07/
news/17622.shtml
The story describes the current situation. Here's the money quote:
"Blacks at Ivy League schools are over three times more likely to be immigrants than blacks in America's general population, a study published in February's American Journal of Education and coauthored by Princeton researchers suggests.
Within the United States, first and second-generation black immigrants make up 13 percent of the total black population.
In contrast, data from the National Longitudinal Study of Freshmen found that international black students---either first or second-generation---made up 23 percent of blacks attending public universities and 41 percent of those attending Ivy League schools." (emphasis added)
I don't blame other people for acting in their own self-interest. That's what sensible people do. This only happens because AAs are foolish enough to ALLOW it to happen.
Peace, blessings and solidarity.
"Let me emphasize that I am NOT a cheek-turning Christian. Islam recognizes that retaliation serves a healthy purpose---to discourage further wrongdoing. So I would never instruct anybody to forgive or forget the wrongs that were done to them. However, the Quran commands believers to NOT let their justified anger lead to committing injustice. Revenge must be proportionate to the evil that was done. And it must be directed against the guilty party."
ReplyDeleteIt's funny that you made this comment because your blog reeks of the fact that you are NOT a cheek-turning Christian.
In fact, your blog have validated much of what I have always felt towards my family members and every other person who committed an evil act against me as a child.
I believe it is because of the fact that your religion acknowledges that anger (when used correctly) serves a purpose.
As a Christian, I was always taught to "forgive and forget" and that anger had no place in the kingdom of God. However, I have always failed miserably at forgiving certain folks---and I've spent more time on my knees praying for my mother, my father, and the men who molested me as a child, than a little bit.
But to be completely honest, the anger came much more naturally for me, because I knew (no matter what the pastors said) that I was justified in my anger.
In fact, when I told my mother and father that I was cutting them off a few months ago, my youngest sister left a message on my voice mail and said something like, "she knew I had lied when I said I had forgiven my mother".
She knew and so did everyone else. No one was surprised by my decision. I have always felt uncomfortable ---and a bit awkward--- trying to move forward towards the future with the individuals who abused me as a child with nothing more from them than mere apologies.
And apologies given on their terms, not mines. With very little explanations about their reasons for the abuse and neglect, and even having the audacity to brag about their days of youth & unlimited freedom during discussions.
(An example of what I am talking about is when my father starts bragging about his days "hustling" on the corner, getting drunk, hanging with friends, and "dogging" women, like I am NOT even in the room with him.)
See, I have a very difficult time seeing how you can brag about about a period of time in your life when you should be ashamed of the duties you neglected, the people you failed to protect and provide for --unless---you are NOT truly sincere in the pain you have caused or the apology you gave.
Speaking of being with someone on your level.
ReplyDeleteWhy is it that a ww and some aw can have only an high school education and still marry a wm or other race man of "means"?
And very few people make a big deal over that particular woman's lack of an higher education.
I have read some wm profiles from a certain dating site and there is a high percentage of wm who are seeking bw with a university education.
Yes, I know life is not fair. However, I get the impression that a bw has to have more education than ww in order to date/marry a wm. And, yes that same pressure ww have to face to stay thin is also being placed on bw.
a.f.
"I don't blame other people for acting in their own self-interest. That's what sensible people do. This only happens because AAs are foolish enough to ALLOW it to happen."
ReplyDeleteTruth and it is time for us to stop being so "nice" and look out for yourself and your family.
a.f.
Hello there, DeStouet!
ReplyDeleteWhat many Black folks just can't quite compute is that an overly-lenient attitude toward wrongdoers is irresponsible, and endangers us all. This slavery-based distortion of Christian beliefs is literally helping to cause unnecessary suffering and death in Black residential areas.
This distortion was originally promoted among the slaves by our former slavemasters to protect them from the revenge that THEY KNEW our ancestors were entitled to take.
This distortion currently serves as a convenient shield for the killers, rapists, child molesters, and other predators among us. This distortion enables these monsters to run loose among us, and continue harming others.
Rightful retaliation does NOT prevent wrongdoers from offering sincere repentance, if that is their true desire. They can repent from their hospital beds. They can repent from their prison cells. They can offer repentance in the afterlife.
________________________
Hello there, A.F.!
I would suggest that you check out the "Are You Ready to Feel Flawless" conversation. There's a badge that links to that discussion on the right side underneath the blog masthead.
In reply to your latest comment:
No, life is not "fair." The sooner everybody understands that, the better. I said the following during the Flawless conversation:
"If we, as Black women, are SERIOUS about taking our rightful place on the larger GLOBAL stage, more of us are going to have to 'step up our game.'
We're going to have to reject what my older relatives called a 'take low' mentality & reach for greatness in ALL avenues of life!
There's also a mass self-worth issue underlying much of this. As Black folks, we generally don't admit that we really don't feel that we're up to the challenge of GLOBAL standards. So, instead, many Black folks look for hip- or humble-sounding excuses for not even trying to be competitive with others.
We invent cute phrases for NOT cultivating ourselves like "keepin' it real." Well, what exactly is "real"? Why is it that the only things that seem to count as "real" with us, are the things that bring you down, and NOT the things that elevate?"
Peace, blessings and solidarity.
"We want to believe that we are in "coalitions" with other people."
ReplyDeleteForeign born Africans are both Chancellors of Southern Univer. in Baton Rouge and New Orleans and almost the majority of the departments are run by foreign born Africans who hire other foreign born Africans to run the various departments.
Some of these individuals' English is so poor that it can be difficult to understand them; but, they have a degree therefore they are Ok?
AA NEED TO WAKE UP...YOUR CROWN AND YOUR PARENTS AND GRANDPARENTS HARD WORK IS BEING OVERLOOKED AND NOT BY THOSE YOU MIGHT SUPECT.
a.f.
Khadija, I'm going to talk about some of these "anti-other" sentiments, vetting men, some of my experiences and why some of the reasons why some other groups move right on by AAs.
ReplyDeleteAlmost All of it has to do with how people are raised to THINK.
I don't think that AAs should go from blaming de evil wm to blaming de evil Africans/foreign born blacks. I think, instead, AA women need to clean up their own THINKING and actions, focus on becoming emotionally and physically healthier & fit (as you've been detailing) SUPPORT EACH OTHER, and flex their own common sense, intellectual and financial muscles, become PROACTIVE about learning how to vet ALL men, etc. and if typical AA women did these things in a deliberate, no-nonsense way, these other ethnic and racial groups as well as hair-flipping others would automatically have NO CHOICE but to back off. No one is stopping AA women from doing these things.
I realize that much of everyone's reality is based on their own experiences and where and how they're positioned but I think that AA women are weighed down with too many pseudo "good" beliefs and don't have nearly enough shrewdness in their thinking or their tactics. Typical AA women haven't been equipped with the strategies and tactics to come out on top. But I don't think these should be put online. According to Machiavellian philosophy, you should NEVER reveal
your strategy and tactics to another prince. LOL!
AAs as a group are not competing well in this country with ANY other group or race. That should tell us that it's not mainly the other group or race's fault; it's mainly OURS. We MUST look ***within.*** Yeah, it's easier and a lot more fun to blame those "other" folks, but nothing is going to change for AAs as a group if the internal work is not done.
I'm going to get specific here to address some of the anti-other sentiments because a lot is being glossed over since it takes too much typing to cover every point well.
In line with trying to prevent another injustice and to help bw to evolve without being weighed down by anger, jealousy and other harmful, useless emotions, I'm saying the following.
I know next to nothing about Caribbean people because I haven't lived among them, but I know continental Africans VERY well--especially west Africans and specifically Nigerians. In addition to being married to one in my first marriage, living in Nigeria there, living in 'Little Nigeria' here, LOL! studying their ways and culture which I'd wanted my children to grow up in,
I also have family members who have been in long marriages to Nigerian men and they have children who are grown ups now. This means that I've lived a large slice of my mental, emotional, and social life inside Nigerian culture. Still do. I know a LOT about the good, the bad, and the ugly of Nigerian culture and of Nigerians. However, I'm not trying to say I'm an expert on any culture, not even AA culture.
Even though I'm married to a wm now, I still mingle a LOT with Nigerians due to those family connections. I have blood relatives, in-laws, and extended family members who are Nigerian-Americans. So I could easily write a book about how Nigerians come to this country, navigate it, and within a VERY short time, many of them are way ahead of AAs.
I think AA women should focus on HOW do they do it--because much can be learned.
I'm going to offer this inside info because I would like for AA women to think more about how they can use SOME of these strategies, if they choose, to move on up instead of being angry at other people (of whatever group) for navigating shrewdly and living well. Also, I was taught by my paternal grandmother as a child to listen, evaluate, and learn from any other PERSON(S) and any THING else--even if the good advice or help comes "out of the rear end of an azz (donkey)." So I've personally always done this and this has proven valuable to me.
Along with integrating the fact that "life is not fair" into their mindset and behaviors, there are several other beliefs that many AA women need to dig out of their mentality and trash FOREVER. One of them is that: "If I do something nice for other people, they will do the same for me." Or "they should be grateful to me if I do something nice for them." WRONG! You must DEMAND reciprocity or you won't get it. If you do not have leverage over that person and/or if you're not READY and WILLING to use that leverage to POUND them in the dirt when they pee on you, you're going to get messed over MOST of the time. AA women need to learn how to get leverage and be prepared to pee all over folks with a swiftness to teach others how to treat us--without all of this hand-wringing, second-guessing, side-stepping, back-stepping, half-stepping, excuses, explanations, and all the rest of the magical thinking emotionalism that SO MANY AA women engage in. When people know that you are willing to aim for their jugular and WILL DO serious damage to them, they respect you. Even lower animals know who to mess with, so humans quickly get the message. They don't mess with you if they know that you're willing to smash them; they go and find somebody else to mess with.
That sounds very violent and vicious, I realize, but this can be done with a soft voice and lots of smiles. LOL!
Many Nigerians who come to this country ARE the smarter, more driven ones. The others never get here. However, within Nigerian culture in general, there is a high premium placed on doing well. This is morphing but much of the following are still planks in Nigerian culture. Doing well involves a HEAVY focus and emphasis on children: raising your children well (to be respectful of elders/ authority, behave with decorum, greatly value education, marriage and family oriented, etc.) family bonding and support (for the nuclear and extended family) getting the maximum education possible, acquiring wealth, stature, getting along with and being supportive of others in the community, etc. Not saying that everybody upholds these values, but these are the ideals.
I often read in some AA blogs about how "those Africans are over there killing each other." LOL! That is not the bulk of what's going on in most African countries or at least, not among the civilians.
Many of these values among Nigerians were ALSO the ways of AAs once upon a time. I was raised with these VALUES, so when I met my first husband and began vetting him, we meshed quickly because he was VERY pro-marriage, VERY pro-family, VERY pro-education, VERY ambitious, disciplined and socialized to provide for and protect a wife and children, as well as be community-minded.
Re vetting a man, even if a typical AA woman has never seen how a normal man plays his role, she should know that she needs a: pro-marriage man and a pro-family man because a man who is like this is MUCH more willing to do his part to have a good, long-term relationship, marriage and family with a woman than one who has to be persuaded to get married or one who doesn't understand why he has to marry the woman and yadda yadda.
It seems though that MANY AA women are drawn mainly to men who "turn them on" with his swagger, clothes, rims, and other silly things. They invest heavily in this type of male and they then try to make him into something that he's not. This is a backwards and bound-to-fail method of finding a QUALITY mate. This is what causes much of the nastiness that we see going on in the AA community. MOST AA men also invest in the superficial aspects of women, however I want to focus on teaching AA women here.
Instead of focusing on the silly and superficial, a woman should only pay attention to the type of man who ALREADY has the VALUES she seeks and then be willing to invest an amount of time (months, not years) in getting to know him. As they get to know each other, doing a wide variety of things that involve sharing their values, he will usually turn her on emotionally, spiritually, sexually, and this is the order in which the turn-on should occur. This is the basis for a long-term relationship--not swagger, clothes, and rims.
An AA woman should only pay attention to a man who has DRIVE, a man with good judgment, a man who appreciates that money is important--and has its place, a man with a repetoire of relationship skills. For ex. how does the man handle his anger? This is a BIGGIE.
One of the major ways my ex-husband would defuse potentially angry situations with me AND with others was to use humor. Sometimes, when we were on the brink of an argument, he'd say something so funny until we'd fall out laughing. Sometimes in the relationship, he would give in to me; other times, I would give in to him. That's the way a worthwhile relationship works. And when a woman is vetting a man, she MUST pay attention to how flexible a man is.
My current husband comes with a different repetoire of relationship skills that can best be summed up by the following: it doesn't matter whether I'm "right" or whether he's "right," because it's not important to win the argument, but to win the person.
Now this may be a sore point to some AAs, but we've got to look at what's going on internally. MANY AA youth are not nearly as competitive educationally speaking as Nigerian-American youths here because many Nigerian parents are education FANATICS whereas I seldom meet AAs who have that same INTENSE attitude about their children's education. Too many AA parents are laid back about their children's education compared to black immigrants. Too many AA parents allow their children to run their households, and seem to feel helpless with their children or that there's nothing else they can do to control their children and raise them properly.
Nigerians CONSTANTLY preach about the value of education to their children and put much more emphasis on raising their children in a way to avoid problems later on for those children. I don't know about the rest of y'all, but I don't hear or read much at all about this type of INTENSE focus placed on education among AA parents. This is ONE of the reasons why many more Nigerian-American children do better educationally than their AA counterparts. When I think about the Nigerian-American young folks I know personally who are age 20 and above (about 12 of them) almost all of them are either in college or they've graduated with at least one degree or are in professional school. And these children are raised to look out for each other--others from their backgrounds.
Nigerians did not invent any of this, so what is stopping a lot more AAs from adopting some of these strategies>
Hello there, Evia!
ReplyDeleteI'm so happy you went through this in detail.
You said, "Almost All of it has to do with how people are raised to THINK."
True!
You said, "I don't think that AAs should go from blaming de evil wm to blaming de evil Africans/foreign born blacks."
I don't believe that speaking the truth about what's going on is the same as "blaming" anybody. The first step to solving any problem is to acknowledge that it IS a problem. Part of this particular problem is that AAs DON'T understand the true nature of our group relationship with these other people: Parasite and Host Body.
AAs are dumb enough to believe that we are in an alliance with people who are actually RIVALS for resources.
Because of our confusion, we allow these other people to use us and the resources that we create. While we continue to suffer and fall further behind.
You said, "I think, instead, AA women need to clean up their own THINKING and actions, focus on becoming emotionally and physically healthier & fit (as you've been detailing) SUPPORT EACH OTHER, and flex their own common sense, intellectual and financial muscles, become PROACTIVE about learning how to vet ALL men, etc. and if typical AA women did these things in a deliberate, no-nonsense way, these other ethnic and racial groups as well as hair-flipping others would automatically have NO CHOICE but to back off. No one is stopping AA women from doing these things."
Agreed. I believe the key phrase in the above statement was "SUPPORT EACH OTHER." Right now, AAs are supporting anybody and everybody EXCEPT each other. That has to stop.
STOP:
-helping these other people come to this country!
-elevating them to high positions in OUR historical Black colleges and universities!
-letting them steal scholarships and other benefits that were supposed to compensate OUR people for the ravages of Jim Crow and slavery!
STOP:
-raising money for them and their issues!
-screaming about the rapes in the Congo when you're NOT screaming about Dunbar Village!
STOP doing all these foolish things and START using that energy to support your OWN people FIRST! Charity should begin at home!
You said, "...AA women are weighed down with too many pseudo "good" beliefs and don't have nearly enough shrewdness in their thinking or their tactics. Typical AA women haven't been equipped with the strategies and tactics to come out on top."
Exactly.
You said, "But I don't think these should be put online. According to Machiavellian philosophy, you should NEVER reveal
your strategy and tactics to another prince. LOL!"
True. This is why I've been talking about various books at length. I hope people will read the books, and begin to apply the strategies to their own situations.
You said, "AAs as a group are not competing well in this country with ANY other group or race. That should tell us that it's not mainly the other group or race's fault; it's mainly OURS. We MUST look ***within.*** Yeah, it's easier and a lot more fun to blame those "other" folks, but nothing is going to change for AAs as a group if the internal work is not done."
We're not competing at all! In part, because we have been indoctrinated to believe that competition is bad. We're always pushing "cooperation" instead of competition.
Another part of why we don't compete is because we have been mesmerized into thinking that we are in alliances (= group cooperation) with other people of color. Of course, they (sensibly) exploit our stupidity and move forward by climbing on our backs.
I don't see any inherent contradiction in acknowledging that somebody is using you AND doing the needed internal work. It's not either/or. We can do BOTH.
You said, "In line with trying to prevent another injustice and to help bw to evolve without being weighed down by anger, jealousy and other harmful, useless emotions, I'm saying the following."
I disagree. I believe that part of the slavery-based brainwashing was to discourage AAs from allowing themselves to feel the NATURAL range of emotions in response to oppression. The slave was never allowed to be angry. To this day, AAs don't allow ourselves to feel righteous anger. Instead, we have continued this slave-based mental habit with our over-emphasis on ill-advised "forgiveness."
Anger is a NATURAL response to being messed over. Righteous anger can be useful in the short-term. It can provide the emotional "jump start" to get off one's butt and make some changes.
Anger got me through law school. LOL!
You said,"Along with integrating the fact that "life is not fair" into their mindset and behaviors, there are several other beliefs that many AA women need to dig out of their mentality and trash FOREVER. One of them is that: "If I do something nice for other people, they will do the same for me." Or "they should be grateful to me if I do something nice for them." WRONG!"
{raised fist salute}
You said, "If you do not have leverage over that person and/or if you're not READY and WILLING to use that leverage to POUND them in the dirt when they pee on you, you're going to get messed over MOST of the time.
AA women need to learn how to get leverage and be prepared to pee all over folks with a swiftness to teach others how to treat us--without all of this hand-wringing, second-guessing, side-stepping, back-stepping, half-stepping, excuses, explanations, and all the rest of the magical thinking emotionalism that SO MANY AA women engage in.
When people know that you are willing to aim for their jugular and WILL DO serious damage to them, they respect you. Even lower animals know who to mess with, so humans quickly get the message. They don't mess with you if they know that you're willing to smash them; they go and find somebody else to mess with."
{standing ovation}
You said, "That sounds very violent and vicious, I realize, but this can be done with a soft voice and lots of smiles. LOL!"
It only sounds vicious to people who are still mentally slaves, and to fools. Everybody else understands that this is how reality works.
You said, "Many of these values among Nigerians were ALSO the ways of AAs once upon a time."
TRUE! There's no need for AAs to humble themselves at the feet of any other group of people to learn how to get ahead. We already had these skills. Before the 1960s, we knew what to do and were doing it. As individuals and families, we just need to return to the best of our "old school" ways!
You said, "Re vetting a man, even if a typical AA woman has never seen how a normal man plays his role, she should know that she needs a: pro-marriage man and a pro-family man because a man who is like this is MUCH more willing to do his part to have a good, long-term relationship, marriage and family with a woman than one who has to be persuaded to get married or one who doesn't understand why he has to marry the woman and yadda yadda."
This is the key! Women need to focus their energies on looking for a man who actually WANTS to be "Joe Husband and Father." And stop wasting time with other types of men.I would also add that it's good to pay attention to the type of guys who are the majority of his friends.
If the bulk of his guy friends are married "family men," then it's a positive sign. If the bulk of his male friends are "players," STAY AWAY. His majority "player" friends will be encouraging him to cheat! [In fact, my older aunts always felt that it was a very bad sign if a guy had even ONE close male friend who was a womanizer.]
You said, "Instead of focusing on the silly and superficial, a woman should only pay attention to the type of man who ALREADY has the VALUES she seeks and then be willing to invest an amount of time (months, not years) in getting to know him."
WORD! And the key phrase is "months, NOT years." I'll say this the raw way my older aunts taught me: "Give a n***** 90 days!" To soften this statement, this means that the guy has 90 days maximum to:
-say out loud and up front that he wants to pursue marriage with you (assuming that there aren't any negative surprises while still getting to know each other); and
-demonstrate that he WILL protect and provide for you.
If he doesn't do the above within 90 days without prompting from you, then it's time to move on to the next candidate. Without explanation. Real men KNOW what they were supposed to do to capture your continued attention.
Ladies, if you take nothing else from this particular comment, please take this phrase: "Give a guy 90 days!" I can see from how so many AA women waste YEARS on non-committal men, that nobody ever told them that. Please repeat the phrase to all of the young women you know and care about.
You said, "...a man with a repetoire of relationship skills. For ex. how does the man handle his anger? This is a BIGGIE."
This is critical. You really need to know in advance of commitment how somebody behaves when the sun is NOT shining, and it's a "rainy day."
You said, "Now this may be a sore point to some AAs, but we've got to look at what's going on internally. MANY AA youth are not nearly as competitive educationally speaking as Nigerian-American youths here because many Nigerian parents are education FANATICS whereas I seldom meet AAs who have that same INTENSE attitude about their children's education.
Too many AA parents are laid back about their children's education compared to black immigrants. Too many AA parents allow their children to run their households, and seem to feel helpless with their children or that there's nothing else they can do to control their children and raise them properly."
Sometimes the truth hurts. That's too bad. Folks need to "suck it up" and move on.
Peace, blessings and solidarity.
Evia said:
ReplyDeleteYou must DEMAND reciprocity or you won't get it. If you do not have leverage over that person and/or if you're not READY and WILLING to use that leverage to POUND them in the dirt when they pee on you, you're going to get messed over MOST of the time. AA women need to learn how to get leverage and be prepared to pee all over folks with a swiftness to teach others how to treat us--
My response:
Wow! We must be on the same wavelength. This is exactly what I have been thinking about all day. We need to have real power and be willing to use that power to our advantage. Living in France has brought this FACT to the forefront of my mind. I have experienced some situations where folks have actually attempted to "pee on me" and I've had to let them know that I was willing the CRUSH them. LOL And I actually have two people I'm in the process of "dealing with." It's funny that when you crush your enemy, others take a step back.
Beverly said, "It's funny that when you crush your enemy, others take a step back."
ReplyDeleteThis is because there are always multiple predators ("demons") in any environment. Once Predator #1 attacks you, the others are eagerly watching to see how you handle Predator #1. The other predators will decide whether or not to attack you based on how you deal with (or FAIL to deal with) Predator #1.
Peace, blessings and solidarity.
Khadija, re:
ReplyDeletePart of this particular problem is that AAs DON'T understand the true nature of our group relationship with these other people: Parasite and Host Body.
I AGREE, a large percentage of AAs obviously do not understand the true nature of life--PERIOD and instead engage in magical thinking. The magical thinking part is a severe problem because it sucks up a lot of energy and keeps people from facing reality.
But this is why I say that this is mostly an internal problem because we have this parasite-host relationship with EVERY other group that we interact with--not just black foreigners. Look at how Asians, Middle easterners, whites and increasingly black foreigners are in black neighborhoods selling this and that. For ex. it irks me sometimes to see bw crowding in nail salons owned only by Asians in my area, getting their nails done. LOL! It doesn't take a Harvard degree to do nails!! Bw could own these shops, but in the bc near me, when a bw did open a nail shop, only a trickle of other bw would go there, so the business closed.
I've watched this happen for a while and this is why I don't really get angry any more or blame anyone else. Just because we don't value education or don't support each other doesn't mean that other groups are going to copy our foolishness. They are going to continue to take advantage of all of these opportunities. And one reason why I think that most AAs don't care much about others getting admission to universities and getting those scholarships is because they know that AA youth are most likely not going to fill those slots in universities anyway. There is a massive anti-intellectualism streak and a low regard for education among a large proportion of AAs. I overheard yesterday a bw talking about how black folks don't push black kids to achieve, yet she has two children who don't do well in school either.
AAs are dumb enough to believe that we are in an alliance with people who are actually RIVALS for resources.
In general, we're not viewed as ally "material." Many AAs think that other groups shy away from us because we're black. That WAS true, but I've found that not to be true in general anymore. People tend to shy away from us mostly because we have TOO MANY internal problems and they don't want to hitch their wagon to ours. We don't value education; we spend our money on what we want and neglect what we need; a disproportional portion of AA youth are out of control; we don't light a fire under bm who abandon their children; we don't uplift marriage and family as vital to the survival of the human race; we are soft on the criminals among us, etc. All of this means that we are a problem-ridden group and the problems compound. On top of that, any time we try to talk about any of these problems among ourselves, either denial, rationalizations or severe infighting USUALLY occurs. Or all of these.
I don't see any inherent contradiction in acknowledging that somebody is using you AND doing the needed internal work. It's not either/or. We can do BOTH.
My take is that it's not a matter of whether we CAN do it; it's what are the masses of AAs SHAPED or conditioned to do? What do they have the WILL to do? Doing these involves self-discipline, organization, accountability, obligation, responsibility, self-reflection, delayed gratification, etc. and these are like curse words to many AAs. LOL!
I don't care how much we talk about this situation or crunch it, in order for there to be any significant change among AAs, AA women are going to have to mate ONLY with marriage-oriented QUALITY men with whom they can develop long-term committed relationships and raise their children inside the confines of a FAMILY. That's one of the main purposes of my site because I have known for a long time that the family is the most basic building block and the most important part of any community, society, or civilization. Practically everything else is just commentary.
Namaste Khadija!!!
ReplyDeleteThank you, thank you, thank you!!! Keep your blog oriented on the support of black women!!!
{raised fist salute}
We need your voice and the wisdom of the women(people) who comment here. Keep transforming the negative into the postive. Keep teaching! If you were to enlighten only one woman with this blog, you would have done well....clearly you reached many more.
Peace
Hello Khadija,
ReplyDeleteWow this is an awesome conversation.
I was thinking of some of these same things, but then I read the new post and I must say that the comment Evia made about niceness was very liberating.
That is pretty much how i was indoctrinated. Be kind to others and they will be kind to you, you get what you give.
And i was starting to really question that. Because my kindness has been repaid with evil many times and it was mindboggling to me.
And it doesn't help much that many of the people i used to confide in were on some Louise Hay and the Secret crap- telling me that i need to be more introspective and look at what i am putting out into the universe, which would drive me insane bc i felt i was being as decent of a person as I could be.
So it has been affirming for to me to hear that.
Also in reading this post i realized that up until the end of last year I had not vetted any of the people I had in my life and what that has cost me.
Not only that, but in reflecting on the last few posts i realized that much of what happened thus far in my young adulthood has been the result of me dealing with people who weren't of like mind/value system. I was totally operating on the if I am good to you then you will automatically be good to me in return.
Hello there, Evia!
ReplyDeleteYou said, "But this is why I say that this is mostly an internal problem because we have this parasite-host relationship with EVERY other group that we interact with--not just black foreigners."
Absolutely correct! My thing is that AAs need to understand this fact across the board. That means telling the truth about EVERYBODY who's using us. That means no more exceptions granted for Black-skin.
We have to break the slave-mind that makes this sort of exploitation possible. Your comments explaining the stupidity of "If I do something nice for other people, they will do the same for me," or "they should be grateful to me if I do something nice for them" thought patterns helped a lot with this process.
You said, "In general, we're not viewed as ally "material." Many AAs think that other groups shy away from us because we're black. That WAS true, but I've found that not to be true in general anymore. People tend to shy away from us mostly because we have TOO MANY internal problems and they don't want to hitch their wagon to ours."
In our current state, we are NOT ally material. Others would be fools to hitch their wagons to ours. Especially when they can use us for free.
It makes perfect sense for other ethnic groups to paddle away from the AA sinking ship as fast as they can. Like Latinos are currently doing (while they attempt to imitate the Asian strategy of presenting themselves as a hard-working, "model" minority group).
You said, "...in order for there to be any significant change among AAs, AA women are going to have to mate ONLY with marriage-oriented QUALITY men with whom they can develop long-term committed relationships and raise their children inside the confines of a FAMILY."
THIS one step is the key to turning our collective situation around. Yet, as you noted, there is always MASSIVE resistance to doing the self-work that is required for this to happen. That's why I spend a lot of time talking about the various distorted thought patterns that we MUST abandon if we are to survive and thrive.
For example, the reality is that it's very difficult for a woman to gain the attention of a QUALITY man if her outer presentation is sub-par. Yet EVERY SINGLE TIME one of us (you, me, Rev. Lisa, others) points this simple fact out, a fight breaks out!
I need not repeat the litany of defensive excuses because we are all quite familiar with them.
Just look at all the resistance and excuses I (and other commenters) had to deconstruct with the Are You Ready to Feel Flawless? conversation.
This is craziness. Clinging to this particular trickbag will lead to continued suffering. AA women need to let go of the "I shouldn't have to change what I'm doing" trickbag.
___________________
Greetings, Southland Diva!
Thank you SO much for your kind words about the blog. I truly appreciate it!
____________________
Greetings, Aphrodite!
You said, "And it doesn't help much that many of the people i used to confide in were on some Louise Hay and the Secret crap- telling me that i need to be more introspective and look at what i am putting out into the universe, which would drive me insane bc i felt i was being as decent of a person as I could be."
This is a CRITICAL point. The wrong kind of introspection can be deadly to one's spirit! Sometimes, the call for introspection is a covert call for a victim to do self-bashing in the midst of an unjust situation. And a covert trick to maintain an unjust status quo.
Just imagine if the people held in slavery were told to examine and develop their character! The ONLY character introspection that would be helpful in that situation would be to ask oneself:
"Why haven't I escaped (yet)?
Why haven't I killed Massa on my way out the door (yet)? After all, Massa did ____________ to me, my kids, etc.
Why am I spending the bulk of my energy on people who don't want to escape?"
What can I do RIGHT NOW that will help get me out of here?"
We can all see that (in this context) any other type of character-building question would be useless. And a part of prolonging being held in slavery.
Hey Khadija,
ReplyDeleteI think I can explain the rift between AAs and Black foreigners. With regards to bigoted Black foreigners, their beef with AAs can be described as "still licking their wounds." Many Black foreigners cannot get over the mistreatment given to them by bigoted AAs. And many AAs cannot get over the bigoted Black foreigners who look down their flat noses at them.
At the very core of this problem is being a victim of White supremacy. Both groups are looking at each other through the lens of White supremacists.
Some Black foreigners come here to the US naively expecting solidarity from AAs when AAs are still struggling to build solidarity amongst each other. Just because we're Black doesn't mean that we should be friends.
Then AAs, who are of a solidarity mindset, are puzzled by the disinterest shown by Black foreigners. Again, just because we're Black doesn't mean that we should be friends.
Disinterested Black foreigners act that way because of ethnic tribalism. In Africa, they don't see race --- they see tribe. Sharing the same nationality doesn't cut it. Many of them hate the fact that colonialism placed them under a nationality. There are inter-tribal marriages in my family that are still frowned upon to this day by a select few.
I'm Nigerian-American and wasn't raised to see myself as anything but Black American since I am Black and was born in America. So being that I was raised to identify as "Black American," I couldn't understand why my fellow Black Americans were dissing (i.e., disregarding, disrespectful, dismissive, disinterested) me. I was reserved, studious, a non-trouble monger, and "Jamaican/wasn't Black" (I look foreign, therefore I was assumed to be "Jamaican" or "not Black") so they didn't wanna know me. I had Black classmates in the honors program who were also hated on by the "Acting Black" crew and we bonded off of that.
I didn't notice the "I'm better than thou" nonsense from Africans up until a few years ago when I saw some Nigerian sista going off on some AA sista at the drive-thru of KFC. Then I started to notice the complaints of extended members of my family. They hate AAs! They had some pretty terrible experiences with AAs and are too irrational to judge on an individual basis.
But I can't forget that far too many AAs have taken the "Mfufu" jokes from Raw waaay too seriously. Africa is not a country in the same way that AAs are not a one-dimensional, group-thinking collective of ghetto dwellers. If "Laquasha" isn't laughable, then so isn't "Kazimbe."
Respect is a two-way street.
Aside from all of that, I totally agree with your post. If you can't act right, then you don't belong here.
Greetings, Anonymiss!
ReplyDeleteI used to care deeply about the "rift" between different Black ethnic groups. I don't care anymore. I've decided to take a page from every other group on this planet and worry about MY group [AAs] first and foremost.
Whoever is doing right by us is okay with me. Across the board, regardless of color, race, etc. Whoever is messing us over is an enemy as far as I'm concerned. Across the board. Regardless of color, race, etc.
No more Black passes. No more passes of any kind for anybody.
Let me give my preamble:
Anonymiss, I respect you and the work that you have done for BW. For me, this isn't about you personally or your experiences.
If nobody else is going to stand up and protect MY people, I WILL. And I'm going to put my own "tribe's" interests FIRST, before I start to worry about others. Just like everybody else does.
Very, very few AA voices are dedicated to AAs first and foremost. Most AAs (our misleaders included) are speaking for anybody and everybody.
AAs are looking out for the interests of self-proclaimed "Don't Call Me Black" biracials. BW come onto this blog to promote and protect the interests of biracials, biculturals, multiculturals, and Cablanasians. We're screaming about Darfur and rape in the Congo. Some of us are crazy enough to be worried about illegal Haitian immigrants; and the double standard of how the US govt. treats them versus illegal Cuban immigrants.
Some AAs are truly DERANGED, and publicly crying the blues for illegal Mexican immigrants.
For there to be at least ONE place where AAs (and specifically AA women and girls) COME FIRST is what all of this is about for me.
There are all sorts of parasites getting fat from taking advantage of AAs in general (with our idiotic cooperation). There are all sorts of parasites getting fat from taking advantage of AA women (with our idiotic cooperation). All of that has to stop. The first step is to tell the truth about what's going on.
As you said, it is true that many Black folks across the planet are looking at each other through the lens of White supremacy.
Respectfully, here's my bottom line about that:
If it wasn't for OUR Civil Rights Movement (and its impact on the the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965), large numbers of foreign Blacks wouldn't even BE in this country to have problems with AAs or anybody else here.
Prior to AAs' Civil Rights Movement, White Americans were quite clear about keeping foreign Blacks (and other non-Europeans) OUT of this country. Prior to our civil rights movement, Whites made sure to keep the vast majority of such persons OUT!
Full stop. Period.
THIS one fact is my starting point for any analysis of any rift between any type of non-European foreigner and AAs.
This, plus the fact that after AAs like myself screamed and protested to help get Nelson Mandela freed, we never heard from Nelson anymore. To my knowledge, there were NO joint business ventures as a result of AAs supporting South Africans' liberation. That experience left a very nasty taste in my mouth.
What concrete action have foreign Blacks mobilized and organized themselves to take on behalf of AAs lately? [Nothing.]
What concrete action have foreign Blacks EVER mobilized and organized themselves to take for AAs? [Less than nothing, except that some foreign Blacks hate AAs.]
Even Fidel Castro (non-Black) tried to send some concrete aid to the Gulf Coast after Katrina. Nigeria has oil money...Did they try to send a single care package after Katrina?
The only African leader I can think of who EVER did anything concrete for AAs was Muammar Qaddafi the ARAB. This was when he gave $5 million to Min. Farrakhan's Nation of Islam.
This lack of reciprocity is AAs' own fault for being gullible fools. NEVER AGAIN.
The moral of this story is that I have recently resolved that I will NEVER AGAIN support any foreign Black issue without some sort of reciprocity up front. Fool me twice, shame on me.
Yes, as you said, respect goes both ways. However, if you are honest then you must admit (at least to yourself) that foreigners of ALL sorts (including Black ones) have already "gotten over" on AAs.
You can't in good faith have any problem with AAs waking up to this reality and responding accordingly--- by starting to demand reciprocity from EVERYBODY. Including your group.
We must ALL demand reciprocity now!
Peace, blessings and solidarity.
@ khadija 12:41 p.m.
ReplyDeleteABSOLUTELY GREAT COMMENTS!!!!!
You have done your Mother proud!
I do my best to tell younger AA women about various AA women bloggers. You ladies have so much enlighting information that these younger women could use.
I am not ashamed to say at my age I am still learning and I WILL ESCAPE. Escaping is part of my plan. I needed a better plan of escape because I have always known that there is a better life out there for AA women.
Also, we need to get out of each others way. If an AA woman is doing well at a college or university....congratulate her and stop with the jealousy.
Encourage her to keep up the good work. Sometimes a compliment can do a world of good for a young woman who may be having issues with her studies.
a.f.
"Give a n**** 90 days!" - Loves it!
ReplyDeleteEvia:
You talking about Nigerians has brought me back to my younger days of hearing "Read your book!"[/Nigerian accent]. And my parents weren't talking about The Baby Sitters Club either. I had to go behind my parents' back and get a library card and sneak those types of books into the house, LOL!
But I do understand what you're saying when you say that AA kids aren't competitive enough. There's so much potential there but no one's properly nurturing them. I know there are single mothers who are working 2 jobs (my mom did it) but so many of these kids aren't having sit-downs with their parents. And why is it OK for an adult to refer to a child as a "nerd?" Why do the likes of some idiotic bloggers feel threatened by Malia Obama and refer to her as "too grown?"
To put it bluntly, these kids are messed up. And their parents are to blame. And so is the community. My parents knew they couldn't apply the "It takes a village..." proverb to where I grew up (mostly Middle Eastern and Latino neighborhood).
And whatever happened to the fear/shame factor? Man, if I brought home a "C" (forget an "F"), I knew what time it was, LOL!
"The moral of this story is that I have recently resolved that I will NEVER AGAIN support any foreign Black issue without some sort of reciprocity up front. Fool me twice, shame on me."
ReplyDeleteI so agree with this statement.
Think about all the money the U.S. has given to other countries and some of these same countries are still looking at the U.S. for more ducking "HANDOUTS" or welfare(yes, this is a type of welfare).
Truth be told. Many foreign students come from their country's middle and upper classes. Also, alot of that money the U.S. has given to these countries were diverted to support various government officials and their families and the poorer people received little or nothing.
Of course, this is a SECRET that Americans are not supposed to be aware of.
Therefore, I too will not be in favor of sending our tax dollars to any country until the U.S. fully supports its own people.
Other countries are laughing at of foolishness.
a.f.
Ladies...there are many AA parents who do focus on their children's education and all around well being.
ReplyDeleteTHINK POSITIVELY.
a.f.
Khadija:
ReplyDeleteI agree. I think the lack of reciprocity has done AAs a disservice over the years. I do believe that AAs should be shrewd and selective when sharing their wealth. Especially when it took great sacrifice and death to grant the wealth. Everyone is not your brotha so you can't give every Black person a cut.
A few years back, I started to learn of the rift when I read articles about the number of Black foreigners getting over on AAs for scholarships, college admissions, and even menial labor.
If the shoe were on the other foot, I wouldn't like it either. But as was said earlier, AAs have gotta be more competitive because shrewd foreigners don't care about you. To expect them to care is like expecting White people to give up their unearned privileges.
I can respect your AA tribal interests. It's pretty natural to want your own to succeed. Selflessness tends to do more harm than good when reciprocity is left out of the equation.
And I'd also like to add that I HATE when Black foreigners front like their s*** don't stink. I find it laughable when African women dismiss AA male potential suitors for the same disgusting habits that African men have. I guess the abuse is all right so long as the man is an Igbo just like you (SMH). AAs act the same way with regards to IR relationships.
This is very true AA people have invented many useful products.
ReplyDeleteWhat have the others invented?
Sound of birds chirping.
We need to recapture that SPIRIT...
YES, WE CAN!!!!!
My nigerian supervisor...will take other people's ideas and pretend they are her own ideas or she will not give credit to the individual who thought of the idea in the first place.
Yes, she does this type of thing.
As one can tell I have lost alot of respect for her.
She actually said to three AA people that President O. should be with someone else other than Michelle. I simply could not believe she said that out loud. Hmmm, maybe he should have married a nigerian?
Our Nigerian Chancellor is married to an educated AA woman. His wife and my supervisor is supposed to be friends. So, why did my supervisor say the Chancellor should have married someone else? Yes, his wife doesn't have movie star looks; but, she is educated and thin.
My superv. is in her early 50's and I am sure she does not look as attractive as she did when she was in her 20's. She uses the skin lightner creams and her eyes are rather wrinkled. I think she feels rather superior when she is talking against AA people...
especially the women.
a.f.
Anonymous a.f. brought up a good point about jealousy. I really feel that jealousy, or as Khadija and Mary would say, hateration will be the death of BW.
ReplyDeleteI've gone to school with the hateration/"Acting Black" wolf packs and saw the weak-minded get sucked into their group out of fear.
What eats away at them is to see you do well and treat them as if they're invisible. It's like dying slowly for them, LOL!
You said, "And it doesn't help much that many of the people i used to confide in were on some Louise Hay and the Secret crap- telling me that i need to be more introspective and look at what i am putting out into the universe, which would drive me insane bc i felt i was being as decent of a person as I could be."
ReplyDeleteThis is a CRITICAL point. The wrong kind of introspection can be deadly to one's spirit! Sometimes, the call for introspection is a covert call for a victim to do self-bashing in the midst of an unjust situation. And a covert trick to maintain an unjust status quo.
Just imagine if the people held in slavery were told to examine and develop their character! The ONLY character introspection that would be helpful in that situation would be to ask oneself:
Hello Aphrodite, thanks for providing this comment for analysis and khadija, you are absolutely correct about bad faith calls for 'introspection'.
Focussing on relationships, as I take a walk across the blogs, i constantly come up against all sorts of folks charging bw with the likes, ' you give out what you get, four fingers are pointing at you, the comon denominator is you etc etc', self help spiel.
I think some of these folks are just trying to look 'smart' by parroting psychobable, others are very calculating in their attempts to get bw to focus inwards (take their eyes off the real issue here) at a point when the major factor is located outwards.
I have said this before and will repeat, that some are ok with the current state of affairs.
Rather than the emotional fantasies that bw construct about how bm and bw want to work together towards higher race goals, bw are going to have to be courageous and accept what is staring them in the face, that bm's needs are being met, with the surplus available booty, and no need to put a ring on it because of the number imbalance.
here is the deal for those who might have a bit of a difficulty, if a situation presents where one person is 'gaining' from a current set up, any attempts to change the arrangement will be met with any of these:
if they are not saying outrightly 'no deal', they will be playing for time,
stalemate,
looking for an impass,
confusion
they will issue 'you go work on yourself and i work on mine' directives
Essentially pushing for nothing to happen which equals status quo remains intact and excess booty remains available!
and if bw havent figured it out by now, this 'no shift state' can be achieved by asking bw to 'just keep reflectimg inwards'.
i think we bw need to be sharp mentally in sussing out people and their motivations and honestly in this case i dont think it is even about us not being mentally sharp, we are just being played by our desperate need to believe the fantasy of bm and bw working togther.
Being a brit this might be a bit tricky commenting on the situation with foreign blacks, but i think there are a number of key points.
ReplyDeleteI think african folks arrive with a high regard for AA's and other western blacks till they get here. then this picture changes quite quickly as you can imagine.
like the rest of the world, many africans respect money and status. brotherhood and black unity and all that are often things they learn to see the need for as they travel through life in the west and realise they are regarded as black. A good portion of foriegn blacks success can be traced to the fact that they often do not know or care to operate within a 'conscious of blackness' framework and I am not saying this in a negative sense. Many simply lack the context and history to do so.
If this is the case here then imagine what the case is for africans in africa, that are laregly cut off from the rest of the world. Many african countries and their citizens lack a global perspective and a global overview of themselves and others and how they fit in with the rest of the world. If they didnt, africa would be a super power.
So I am not suprised there was little or no response to katrina. Africa is still pretty much a spectator to world affairs and world events, and thats when they get to turn on TVs!
Hello there, A.F.!
ReplyDeleteThank you for your kind words about my older relatives' "Give a n***** 90 days!" quote. LOL! When I was a teenager, I thought my Mom, grandmother and aunts were harsh and crazy when they repeated these sorts of things. I found out later that they were right all along.
It always saddens and surprises me when I realize that other young BW didn't have the benefit of being told these sorts of things. But we can all spread the word! *Smile*
You said, "Also, we need to get out of each others way. If an AA woman is doing well at a college or university....congratulate her and stop with the jealousy.
Encourage her to keep up the good work. Sometimes a compliment can do a world of good for a young woman who may be having issues with her studies."
True! I believe that we should screen and vet folks before thinking about helping them. [Sometimes it's dangerous to play Good Samaritan.] However, a kind word doesn't cost anybody anything.
A.F., let's not focus anymore on the Nigerian colleague or anybody else like that. The point is that all of this happened because AAs allowed it to happen.
My goal in mentioning all of this is to drive home the point of "Demand Reciprocity Across the Board. From EVERYBODY.
You said, "Ladies...there are many AA parents who do focus on their children's education and all around well being."
Respectfully, I beg to differ. This is simply NOT true. There are some AA parents who focus on their children's education. Such AA parents are NOT the majority; and they are NOT even the mainstream of AA parenting. They are an ever-shrinking minority of AA parents. We have to first 'fess up to a problem in order to solve it.
_____________________
Hello there, Anonymiss!
You said, "If the shoe were on the other foot, I wouldn't like it either. But as was said earlier, AAs have gotta be more competitive because shrewd foreigners don't care about you. To expect them to care is like expecting White people to give up their unearned privileges.
I can respect your AA tribal interests. It's pretty natural to want your own to succeed. Selflessness tends to do more harm than good when reciprocity is left out of the equation."
I'm delighted that you understand. Reciprocity leads to justice AND goodwill.
_____________________
Hello there, Halima!
Yep. I can just see the slaves or those held in Nazi concentration camps pondering, "Hmmm...How can I attract freedom into my life? How can I become a more loving and lovable slave/concentration camp prisoner?"
{sound of screams and then gunfire as the captive person is taken off to the side, beaten and finally shot in the head}
Hmmmph.
You said, "Focussing on relationships, as I take a walk across the blogs, i constantly come up against all sorts of folks charging bw with the likes, ' you give out what you get, four fingers are pointing at you, the comon denominator is you etc etc', self help spiel."
Isn't that just sickening? To me, it's as outrageous and repellent as the imagined scenario I described above.
You said, "if a situation presents where one person is 'gaining' from a current set up, any attempts to change the arrangement will be met with any of these:
if they are not saying outrightly 'no deal', they will be playing for time,
stalemate,
looking for an impass,
confusion
they will issue 'you go work on yourself and i work on mine' directives
Essentially pushing for nothing to happen which equals status quo remains intact and excess booty remains available!"
Exactly!
You said, "i think we bw need to be sharp mentally in sussing out people and their motivations and honestly in this case i dont think it is even about us not being mentally sharp, we are just being played by our desperate need to believe the fantasy of bm and bw working togther."
I agree. Many BW are being tricked because they want to believe the fantasy. They want to persist in magical thinking. They want to remain in denial.
Reality is just too scary for a lot of us. That's unfortunate, because you either deal with reality or it will deal with you (quite harshly). [Paraphrased from a saying by the Life After the Oil Crash blog host.]
Peace, blessings and solidarity.
Hello there, Halima!
ReplyDeleteYou said, "...they travel through life in the west and realise they are regarded as black. A good portion of foriegn blacks success can be traced to the fact that they often do not know or care to operate within a 'conscious of blackness' framework and I am not saying this in a negative sense. Many simply lack the context and history to do so."
I think you're correct about this. I've noticed the same thing. African immigrants tend not to be race-conscious because they were not FORCED to be, like AAs were in our experiences here. Africans did NOT live through AA experiences. And are not racial minorities in their home countries.
Many of them don't have the slightest clue about our lives and history here.
They also tend not to understand the racism here in the US. That is, until it violently bites them in the butt. [Ahmadou Diallo, etc.] Oh well...too bad, so sad...
Unlike the Spanish and Arab slave masters, AAs' Anglo American former slave masters kept us at a distinct social distance and never pretended to welcome us into their families.
In some ways that was good because it prevented AAs from falling for the "there's no racism, we're all one big family" trick/lie of places like much of Brazil and the rest of Latin America, and the Arab world. This is why so many Black Latinos and Black Arabs are confused and sincerely believe that there's no racism in their societies.
They rarely seem to notice that it just so happens that the poorest people in these societies are almost always BLACK. Even though it just so happens that the richest people in these societies are almost always the "Whitest" looking.
[/heavy sarcasm/] I'm sure that this uniform pattern throughout Latin America is just some bizarre stroke of fate.
It took several rounds of going back and forth with one Black Latina in high school before she would finally admit that they used the Spanish phrases for "good hair" and "bad hair." Before she would 'fess up and admit that the Whiter Puerto Ricans sometimes called her the N-word. Before she would finally 'fess up to a lot of things.
Oh well...
Peace, blessings and solidarity.
Forget that BW need to move to Europe and get them a rich white man and sit down like Ms. Anne and rock her babies. Forget all this other mess. WM from Italy, France and Spain want us bad trust me get on a plane and go. Run out of these ghetto cesspools and get one of those wealthy Europe men.
ReplyDeleteYes, what happened to Mandela and the other South African men who got out of jail? IMO, Winnie Mandela was kicked to the curb by Nelson. Yes, get rid of Winnie and the transition from the old government to the new government was made easier.
ReplyDeleteA few years ago this one S.A. guy was being featured on 60 Minutes and he was in the same prison that Mandela was in...only he was not in prison as long as Mandela.
Anyway, 60 Minutes showed how well this guy was living after the white South Africans were made to leave. As per 60 Minutes- this guy's wealth was valued at $300 million dollars. This guy was talking about when he was in jail this ww lawyer came to visit him because she was trying to gain his freedom and he said they felled in love while he was in prison and they would hold hands under the table. Well, well how convenient for them.
The ww lawyer was one of many who tried to gain his and others freedom. Somewhere a long the way she realized that this guy was going to be worth millions and she positioned herself to share in the wealth. He married her.
I think if the roles were reverse white prisoner and bw lawyer the white guy probably would not have married the lawyer; but, would have kept her as a great legal aid.
But, the stupid S.A. guy just got all excited about the ww lawyer.
A major part of that $300 million dollars could have built schools, hospitals, and provided housing for many South Africans and not just the choosen few.
No, we do not hear much anymore about South Africa. SOUTH AFRICA HAS NOT DONE ONE DAM THING FOR AA PEOPLE. Yes, I donated a few dollars when Winnie came to town this was before Nelson was release.
NO MORE DONATIONS. Also, it is time for India to do better by their underpriviledge people and stop looking to the U.S. for handouts.
a.f.
Hello Khadija,
ReplyDeleteWith regards to the AA tribe/resources.
I am a bit ashamed to admit this, but I was shocked when I read your comments. After reading and digesting I understand - it makes sense and it is common sense.
I have to admit I was indoctrinated with the we are all one collaboration mindset and then I got out into the real world. I started having these experiences that didn't line up with that.
I had no idea that this mindset in some instances can be detrimental as an AA -resource wise.
But I can now see that as an extension of you be nice to others and they will automatically be nice to you mindset.
Re education-
I can kind of relate to this. My mother never had to ride me hard concerning grades because although I fear conflict/confrontation I was very competitive and the past abuse turned me into a perfectionist. My self esteem was and still kind of is tied to my performance/achievements (which has its own negative issues I am dealing with), but I had to "win".
I am slowly learning to be more balanced about this.
At any rate, the beliefs above combined with the death of my father was my motivation for getting my degree. My parents were married for 21 years before I was born and watching my middle aged mother, who had never worked a day in her life, struggle, made me decide somewhere in the back of my 8 year old mind that- that would not be me.
My mother was against me getting an education not so much because she was anti intellectual (I was shocked to learn this month that she had a strong interest in science), but because she wanted me to be a housewife and she saw what I was doing as a personal rejection of her and her values. As if I couldn't do both. I also think that she was of the mind that "if it was good enough for me- it is good enough for her". She even orchestrated an arrangement, unbeknownst to me at the time, and of course it didn't work out.
It is funny bc she never told me about men, love or sex. I guess she though it would all drop out of the sky.
At the time I thought she was evil and although I can see her intentions more clearly, her lack of support harmed me nonetheless; her limited advice was outdated, as the world she lived in was very different from the world today.
The damaged people in my family and community were/are extremely anti intellectual and I had to endure the onslaught from all of that. It would upset me to no end because they would "talk to" my mother about me and I was afraid of the level of influence they may have over her considering her stance- especially my brother.
It is funny that some of these same people later went on to acquire some education be it vocational training etc.. and when the family grapevine heard that I was now getting my masters they now feel the need to tell me that I need to be careful bc I can be too educated and over qualified.
So I kind of toy with the idea of getting a doctorate.
@ A.F. Please don't end up on the 9 o'clock news over your Nigerian supervisor. :) I like to see BW firsts, but I don't want to see you be the first to go postal on a job in a national way. You are starting to sound a bit obsessed and if someone is getting to you that much, the environment is toxic and change is in order. :)
@ Halima and Khadija,
Thank you so much for that. For me I think this line of thinking has unfortunately extended into many areas of my life.
"Yep. I can just see the slaves or those held in Nazi concentration camps pondering, "Hmmm...How can I attract freedom into my life? How can I become a more loving and lovable slave/concentration camp prisoner?"
Well.. when you put it like that...
Re: white men and other men of color
I must admit. I am scared to death of southern white men. When I was coming up and going to a mixed school, I had that idealistic, kumbayah we are all one attitude, but as an adult being in the south... very different.
I am starting to wonder if the jokes about southerners are true. When I was out west I would defend the south - to other whites even. Now I am pausing.
And whomever made the comment about other men of color having similar issues to BM - you are so right. I have dated a few Mexicans and Indians here - to try and date and whatnot and my goodness.
I had one Mexican tell me flat out to my face on a date recently that white women are better bc they know how to treat/take care of their men. Nevermind that he was a hot mess. Although he tried to impress my mother by bringing her a gift, he had octopus hands and kept trying to get me drunk when I kept demanding to go home.
I had one Indian obsessed with my skin tone - and wanted a portfolio of pics to gauge whether I was light.
One day I will look back on all of this and laugh. :)
"Forget that BW need to move to Europe and get them a rich white man and sit down like Ms. Anne and rock her babies. Forget all this other mess. WM from Italy, France and Spain want us bad trust me get on a plane and go. Run out of these ghetto cesspools and get one of those wealthy Europe men."
I so hear that. What is the Euro, 1.60 to 1 American dollar? :)
Hello there, Aphrodite!
ReplyDeleteYou said, "I have to admit I was indoctrinated with the we are all one collaboration mindset and then I got out into the real world. I started having these experiences that didn't line up with that.
I had no idea that this mindset in some instances can be detrimental as an AA -resource wise.
But I can now see that as an extension of you be nice to others and they will automatically be nice to you mindset."
Yes, it IS an extension of the "be nice to others and they will automatically be nice to you" magical thinking. ALL magical thinking has got to go.
________________________
Hello there, A.F.!
My sister, you almost sound as if you're on the edge of having a cerebral aneurysm over the foreigners. Please don't do that! LOL! Let...the...foreigners...go...Purge them from your mind...Focus on how you're going to accomplish YOUR goals... Believe me, these people (Nigerian colleague included) and societies have their OWN problems. Just like everybody else.
The only (slight) difference is that AA dysfunction is on "front street" for everybody else to see and laugh at. When you get to know other people up close and personal, you see that there's madness to be found all around.
Repeat after me: "I...will.. NOT...spend...undue mental energy on the foreigners. LOL!
We need to focus on what we're doing for us, and keep it moving forward!
Peace, blessings and solidarity.
"No, we do not hear much anymore about South Africa. SOUTH AFRICA HAS NOT DONE ONE DAM THING FOR AA PEOPLE. Yes, I donated a few dollars when Winnie came to town this was before Nelson was release."
ReplyDeleteI think it needs to be clearly understood first that South Africa has also not done anything much for black South Africans either.
Greetings, Anonymous!
ReplyDeleteYou said, "I think it needs to be clearly understood first that South Africa has also not done anything much for black South Africans either."
Perhaps you're a defensive, excuse-making African who's making excuses for why our African so-called "brothers and sisters" did NOT lift a single finger to help us during Katrina.
Incidentally, as far as I could tell, NONE of our so-called "brothers and sisters" throughout the so-called African diaspora made even a weak gesture of concern, while some non-Blacks did try to help (for whatever political reasons---I'm not naive about these things).
"African diaspora." LOL! Bwah, bwah, bwah! {loud laughter} Can we all now see what a joke that phrase really is? And unfortunately, the joke is on any AA who's naive enough to buy into that notion. Like I used to be.
But I digress...
Or, Anonymous, you could be an AA who's fixated on what Africans are doing or fail to do.
I'll assume that you're AA.
Why is it so hard for us to stay focused on ourselves? I don't care whether or not South Africa is doing much for Black South Africans. That's their problem.
I'm only mentioning foreign Blacks in this context because some of them are hindering OUR introspection by jumping into our conversations with bad-faith comments. The only reason I've mentioned their siphoning off of our resources is because this is harming US.
I only mention them because some of their actions are helping to destroy US as a group. However, this mass "back stab and theft" is only possible with OUR cooperation. Our enabling of this behavior by outside parasites (including Black ones) is OUR internal problem.
We need to focus our attention on solving OUR problems. And totally forget about anybody and everybody who is NOT giving us reciprocity. We need to leave these NON-RECIPROCATING people to their own fates. Good or bad.
Peace, blessings and solidarity.
Greetings Khadija,
ReplyDeleteI am not an African, nor was I making excuses. I was alluding to a statement made by an earlier commenter. It's important to understand that in a country such as South Africa, Blacks are still suffering and the country is still more or less ruled by the white elite determined to keep them so. The African continent has many internal problems due to corrupt governments, neighbouring conflicts apartheid residue, and I could go on. Little emphasis is placed in any country on the importance of the inter-connectivity of Black people throughout the world.
Black South Africans, like many Africans throughout the continent are also dealing with a multitude of economic, health and social problems. Their failure to help you during Katrina cannot be simply put down to their turning their backs or ignoring you on purpose.
I was not trying to defend anyone, I apologize if it seemed that way, I was just trying to point out that sometimes these issues can be a bit more complex.
I also forgot to add that there were some drives organized in and some of the other Caribbean to raise and donate funds.
ReplyDeleteJust one last comment from me, I promise, and then I will leave. I apologize for jumping in here like that just now. As a black woman, I am committed to the upliftment of Black women anywhere in the world -however, as someone who is not an African-American woman, I must respect that there are certain spaces that I simply cannot make mine just because I am a black woman who considers herself an ally to black women everywhere. While I did come here in good faith, I understand that perhaps as a black non-American woman, there may be certain privileges that I have failed to acknowlege. I myself get annoyed when people do this to me, and the last thing I would want is to do that to anyone else. So again my sincere apologies, and much respect.
ReplyDeleteHello there, Anonymous!
ReplyDeleteYou said that you're not African. Ahhh...you might be West Indian. [I prefer to have some idea of who I'm talking to. Since I'm upfront about the various components of my ethnic identity.] This is mildly interesting to me, because I really used to be into Pan-Africanism, etc.
You said, "It's important to understand that in a country such as South Africa, Blacks are still suffering and the country is still more or less ruled by the white elite determined to keep them so. The African continent has many internal problems due to corrupt governments, neighbouring conflicts apartheid residue, and I could go on."
Come on now, these ARE (weak) excuses. AAs gave and give charity to foreign Blacks while WE have been ruled by a White elite who were "determined to keep us suffering."
I vaguely recall reading something about Madame C.J. Walker organizing, and soliciting donations from dirt-poor, disenfrachised AAs during the 1930s, for schools and such in Africa and the Caribbean!
People do what they want to do with whatever resources they have.
You said, "Black South Africans, like many Africans throughout the continent are also dealing with a multitude of economic, health and social problems."
Well, my goodness. What in the world have AAs been dealing with throughout the centuries here? Despite all of this, WE still organized to give charity to our so-called brothers and sisters in the so-called diaspora. We did this even BEFORE we were able to vote in the South!
You said, "Their failure to help you during Katrina cannot be simply put down to their turning their backs or ignoring you on purpose."
My point is that during a widely, globally-publicized hour of need, our so-called brothers and sisters throughout the so-called African disapora watched AA bodies float down the streets of New Orleans on tv and did nothing.
Katrina was a wake-up call for me on many, many levels. It should serve as a wake-up call for other AAs. On many different levels.
You said, "I also forgot to add that there were some drives organized in and some of the other Caribbean to raise and donate funds."
Really? Who? What? Where? When? Please provide some details. Furthermore, if such things actually took place who were they raising funds for? Were they raising funds to help their own countrymen who were caught up in Katrina?
If this actually took place, were they raising funds for anybody and everybody caught up in Katrina? Were they raising funds specifically for Black people caught up in Katrina?
Peace, blessings and solidarity.
Yes I am Afro-Caribbean. And yes, again you are correct. The funds raised in some Caribbean islands I believe would have been directed to organizations such as the Red Cross and so on which would have served all victims of Katrina, and not specifically the African American ones. So again my apologies for infiltrating your space without paying attention to the facts and without acknowledging my own privileges. And again much respect.
ReplyDeleteHello there, Anonymous!
ReplyDeleteOh no, please don't feel that you're unwelcome here. Anyone who participates in good faith, and supports abundant life for BW is welcome here!
There are several non-AA BW who have blessed this blog with their participation. I hope you'll do the same; and I specifically invite you to participate if you wish!
As I see it, the problem is that people aren't used to AAs setting boundaries. We usually don't set any boundaries. All I'm doing here is setting some boundaries.
And the boundaries don't just apply to non-AAs. I've had to admonish some AA commenters who wanted to use the blog in a way that is not consistent with the blog's mission profile. I've had to delete comments from AA commenters that were in violation of my comments policy. Thankfully, this has been a relatively rare experience so far.
The point of the boundaries are to keep this think tank on track with helping BW (with a focus on AA women) to help themselves have abundant, joyous lives.
Let me be clear:
ANY BW who is working and commenting in a spirit of reciprocity is especially welcome here!
ANY man who supports abundant, joyous life for BW and girls is welcome here! This blog has been blessed to have several such men offer their thoughts about various issues.
ANYBODY who supports abundant, joyous life for BW and girls is welcome here!
I only start to have issues with guests when I see that they're playing games of some sort. THAT sort of behavior is what I was refering to when I talked about the foreign Black commenters.
Peace, blessings and solidarity.
Since the question has come up naturally during the course of this conversation, let me repeat some things I recently told a White commenter during another thread. I said:
ReplyDelete...Let me make this clear to you and any other non-Black readers: You are welcome to participate within certain boundaries.
To skip forward [I'll explain in detail later in this reply]: You are welcome to participate using the same respectful, self-editing that you probably use when discussing Jewish issues with Jewish people. [That is, assuming that you are not Jewish yourself.]
You are perfectly welcome to comment, and participate as long as it's NOT an effort to TELL us how we should think about racial matters that pertain to US. This is not a forum to debate with non-Blacks about OUR business. You are welcome to ask questions, as you have done. You are welcome to ask for clarification of why a commenter believes as they do.
Be aware that nobody is under any obligation to invest time in answering questions from outsiders. Readers are free to do so if they wish. They are free not to do so. I'll do it if I'm in the mood (LOL!), but keep in mind that educating non-Blacks is not my mission profile for this blog.
The problem that often occurs with non-Blacks jumping into many of these Black blog discussions is that it becomes a form of dominance. Many Whites feel perfectly comfortable telling us about OUR experiences. And telling us how we "should" perceive OUR experiences regarding racial matters.
This is disrespectful and unhelpful.
I would suggest the following thought experiment:
If you are not Jewish, have you ever questioned or debated with Jews about THEIR perceptions of matters related to their Holocaust? [I'm not talking about debates/questions about Israeli/Zionist politics or policies, I'm talking about matters directly related to their Holocaust.]
If you are not Jewish, have you ever questioned or debated with them about how they choose to define membership in THEIR ethnic/relgious group? Have you ever questioned or debated with them about how they choose to interpret the behavior of children from religiously mixed marriages?
People take liberties with AAs' concerns and sensibilities that they would never think to do with others.
So here's a quick guide for outsiders' boundaries here: If you wouldn't do it, say it, or challenge it regarding Jewish people, it's probably equally inappropriate to do it, etc. with us.
If you don't go around telling Jews who they should or should not consider Jewish, then it's not appropriate for you to try to define membership in OUR group.
If you don't go around telling Jews that they shouldn't be offended by actions and statements they perceive to be anti-Semitic, then it's not appropriate for you to try to give us lectures about what we should or should not perceive as racist.
LOTS of people seem to be able to figure this out when it comes to other people's sensibilities. Folks can figure it out when it comes to us as well. It's not that hard. However, part of the problem is that most 'mixed company' discussions surrounding race tend to be dishonest. Another part of the problem is the AAs tend not to enforce boundaries. There are boundaries here."
Peace and blessings.
Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteNo, no...you're not "infiltrating" a space here. As I explained above, you're welcome here! I learn a LOT from listening to the readers. Sometimes I learn that I'm the one who's WRONG! LOL!
I hope you'll come back and "set a spell" in this salon. *Smile*
Peace, blessings and solidarity.
""African diaspora." LOL! Bwah, bwah, bwah! {loud laughter} Can we all now see what a joke that phrase really is?"
ReplyDeleteLOL...Khadija, careful you do not pop a gasket."
Thank you for the invite Khadija. And I definitely agree 100% with your point on reciprocity.
ReplyDeleteIn the Caribbean there is a fair amount of aid that goes towards Haiti and other Caribbean nations and also some African countries such as Malawi.
I am not sure why in all of this, we neglected to give aid to African Americans. I must admit this is something I never thought about myself, and I will be further addressing on my own blog. I am not sure if it is tied into the notion that the rest of the world tends to hold towards America either rightly or wrongly -that America is a very powerful nation that will always take care of its own (nothing wrong of course with America doing that.)
I am not aware if there were any drives by non-American Blacks directed specifically towards African Americans during Katrina. The fact that I am not aware would of course suggest that not enough was done. This is definitely an issue that needs to be addressed by Blacks internationally.
Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteYou said, "LOL...Khadija, careful you do not pop a gasket."
Oh...that particular gasket has already been blown. For quite some time now. I was in shock and truly upset when I first realized some of these things; but now it has all reached the level of farce for me.
"History repeats itself, first as tragedy, second as farce."--Karl Marx
{Not that I'm particularly fond of Godless communism, but he was right about that particular point. LOL!}
To make a very long story short about my philosophical evolution: I was a veteran Black Nationalist until the Dunbar Village atrocity and its aftermath snapped me out of that particular trance. I was disoriented once I realized how far gone the AA collective had become.
As I have said many times since waking up, we're well on our way to a Rwanda-style meltdown in AA residential areas. It's time for AA women to save their lives (along with that of their children) and evacuate such areas. I've been saying this since the All Colored People That Want to Go to Kansas 2-part series.
So many things regarding the AA collective have reached the level of farce. It was a tragedy the first time around. Now, it's satire.
I'm not even particularly angry with non-AA Blacks for not sending help during Katrina---AAs have never negotiated (or required) reciprocity up front from anybody. "Fool me twice, shame on me." This is our own fault.
Furthermore, WE don't care about US in reference to Katrina. Oh...let me go down a partial list of self-inflicted atrocities:
*Condi Rice going shopping for expensive shoes and to see Spamalot while the bodies floated down the streets of New Orleans. Many other AAs are irritated when I keep bringing this up whenever her name is mentioned. We still want to celebrate this...creature. AAs just looove symbolic advances.
*People from affected areas are STILL displaced, and AA politicians say and do NOTHING.
*AAs as a group have been frolicking about Pres. Obama's election. Meanwhile, displaced AAs are STILL displaced. WE have forgotten about our own people too!
*Next to no discussion in AA circles about the eco-disaster-tainted trailers that the federal government used to house displaced persons.
Said trailers were quickly and cheaply made overseas without US standards in terms of hazardous materials. Said trailers have apparently caused respiratory problems for many displaced elders and small children who have been living in them.
*Illegal Mexican aliens being hired to do the reconstruction work in New Orleans. In such numbers that will affect the demographics AND political representation of that city.
As things stand, AAs in New Orleans have already lost a previously Black-occupied Congressional seat to a Vietnamese-American. Many AAs in New Orleans sat out that election because they were satisfied with having elected Obama.
As I mentioned in Part 2 of the Charity Should Begin at Home series, these demographic changes due to Latino immigration will cost AA several Congressional seats after the next US census!
Quiet as it's kept, Latino immigrants are changing the demographics of many small towns in rural areas throughout the South. As in California, the pattern is that Latino political advances come at the expense of AA political representation.
Many of these non-Black people of color politicians seem to have a habit of running for office in previously Black-represented districts. They don't seem to do this in White districts. These other people's political gains ususally come at the expense of AAs.
*As far as I can tell, the AA misleadership class is NOT talking about any of this. Nor are the AA blogs. They have apparently forgotten about all of that in their Obama-induced delirium.
I remember. One of my best friends remembers. She's originally from New Orleans. She lost a relative behind all of that mess.
I could add some more incidents to this list, but I can feel the froth forming around my lips, so I'll leave it at that.
So you see, the first round of AA interests being ignored was when we were still politically disenfranchised. White politicians literally ignored us to death. This was a tragedy.
The current round of AA life and death issues being ignored is happening under more Black politicians than we've ever had before; including a Black US President! So now we have the privilege of AA politicians literally ignoring the rest of us to death.
Ahh...Progress!This round of this particular pattern has reached the level of a sick joke in a stand-up comedy routine.
Like I said, some of my gaskets popped loose a while ago.
Peace, blessings and solidarity.
"As far as I can tell, the AA misleadership class is NOT talking about any of this."
ReplyDeleteAnd, that is because the majority of these politicians are looking out for themselves and their closest family and friends.
And, yet they still look for all AAs to vote for them. Cao won the House because of Jefferson and his family's bs. He put himself in that particular position.
All of those people who did not vote chose not to vote.
Some AAs are getting tired of being misrepresented by other AAs.
I was at the Super Dome that week 3years ago. And, not one politician blk. or white came to see if there was anything they could do. We could see military carriers evacuting people from city hall and slim shady aka the mayor did not bother stopping by the Dome to bring the children a bottle of water.
Greetings, Anonymous at 10:32p.m.!
ReplyDeleteI hear you. I'm at a disadvantage because I'm not familiar with the local dynamics of New Orleans politics. But here's my question to you:
Wasn't there a single competent AA person that could have been elected instead of William "Cold Cash" Jefferson, OR the Vietnamese-American Republican?
The pattern seems to be that once AAs lose political representation of a Congressional district, we DON'T ever get it back. I hope that "Cold Cash" isn't the LAST AA Congressman from that district!
I've been warning people that AAs will look up a couple of years from now and we'll have a Black president and nothing else!
Peace, blessings and solidarity.
Hello,
ReplyDeleteFirst and foremost, I'm goign to declare my nationality. I am a Nigerian. I've read your blog before and when I followed a link from WAOD to this topic, hmmm.. I took a step back and thought oh well.. if that's how you feel.
A few commenters have said some grossly inaccurate things because of an experience with one member of my country but whats the point in even debunking that?. If one can make such a judgement based on one person. oh well.
Howevr, it is the comment which you made below which I have to respond to.
Khadeja, your government reufsed aid. The Bush government refused aid from 150 countries.
And most of the foreign aid it accepted had to be re-routed through The Bush Katrina fund, $400million dollars worth of Oil was re-routed through that fun along with millions of dollars.. and I'm talking double digits here.
Your govt refused physical help.
Your goverment refused the grain from Central African republic. Your government refused the offer of barrells of Oil from Nigeria.
And your media NEVER reported it.
There were ships sitting on the dock from mexico which got turned back, 150 countries had their aid rejected.
But you know what, people like me, individual Africans, went on canned food drives and shipped containers to our other AFrican brothers and sisters who live in the US and told us about the drives and things needed.
Packets of nappies, canned goods.e.t.c
We wrote about it and raised awareness in our local papers, both in Nigeria and in the countries where we live in the diaspora.
We donated money, my mother sent money, many sent via their churches and mosques.
We sent clothes, we sent food (mostly they have to be canned food) as most of our food types would have to be quaanteed before they are allowed into the US.
Now, why am I saying this and risking being insulted amongst other things?.
Well because it never gets said. We do all this crap and nobody says a word about it.
Could we have sent ships? no It would take months to get to the US, we sent the things we could. Nobody likes to admit gettying aid from Africa. Because afterall Africa is supposed to be this disease ridden place.
Case in point, when an african country sent some fruit to UK, because they heard a certain town was in need, it made the news as a farce and it was sent back. Unopened. untouched.
The people that were interviewed, were shocked and disgusted to receive the aid.
I'll round this up by saying, we have always helped when we could. Both our governments and our private citizens.
If your news won't report the good things that African Americans do, what makes you think that they will even begin to report those that Africans do.
I'll refrain from commenting on anything else.
And I have no interest any longer in anyone changing their opinions anymore. I think people are going to believe what ever they want and hate whoever they want and build up fantasic stories about how only the elite Africans travel (which is just wrong and laughable)
If there is one thing that you get from this, just know that many African countries offered help, they were rejected unless they donated through private funds or the redcross.
You said this:
"Incidentally, as far as I could tell, NONE of our so-called "brothers and sisters" throughout the so-called African diaspora made even a weak gesture of concern, while some non-Blacks did try to help (for whatever political reasons---I'm not naive about these things).
"African diaspora." LOL! Bwah, bwah, bwah! {loud laughter} Can we all now see what a joke that phrase really is? And unfortunately, the joke is on any AA who's naive enough to buy into that notion. Like I used to be."
oh and for more information, here was one of the first lists published of countries that donated:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9282598/
Some African countries listed: Djibouti, Uganda, Nigeria, e.t.c.
Lest we forget, at Many African countries were heavily involved in giving Aid and trying to keep the peace in Sudan, and CAR.
yet they still made offers.
Countries which you count as enemies such as Iran.. still made offers.
Some poor European countries made offers, one of them making an offer of $6,500.
It could have at least helped someone. (one family, one man, some desks in a school, perhaps?)
Yes, some countries offered aid with strings attached i.e. open up trading, free and fair trading to out block..
So? It's what the US has been doing for years with it's aid programs. It would be crazy not to in some cases because the trade sanctions and embargos are grossly unfair.
In looking over this, this is why I think many Africans do not like to even get into debates about this.
The information is there for all of us to find.
Yet, you still accusee us of not doing anything?
How does one even begin to come back on that?.
How does one even begin to challenge that?.
I LOVE THIS POST. I did a post similar to this a while back ago and the mammy word was thrown all around. I have also addressed the foreign born black vs. american black, which I feel is another rung in the racial hierarchy. There are many men who subscribe to the belief that non American blacks have less hang ups than American blacks, and to me that is frustrating.
ReplyDeleteGreetings, Soul2!
ReplyDeleteYou said, "First and foremost, I'm goign to declare my nationality. I am a Nigerian."
I like the fact that you have the courage to speak with at least a screen name, and will state your nationality up front.
You said, "A few commenters have said some grossly inaccurate things because of an experience with one member of my country but whats the point in even debunking that?. If one can make such a judgement based on one person. oh well."
Hmmm...You seem willing to give up very quickly. I held onto the Pan-African myth of an African diaspora for over 20 years. I held onto this myth despite mostly negative experiences with foreign Black folks.
Like I said, I no longer believe in such notions. But when I hear things like this, I realize that I should have given up on that idea a LONG time ago.
You said, "Khadeja, your government reufsed aid. The Bush government refused aid from 150 countries."
Oh yes, I knew this.
You said, "And most of the foreign aid it accepted had to be re-routed through The Bush Katrina fund, $400million dollars worth of Oil was re-routed through that fun along with millions of dollars.. and I'm talking double digits here.
Your govt refused physical help.
Your goverment refused the grain from Central African republic. Your government refused the offer of barrells of Oil from Nigeria.
And your media NEVER reported it.
There were ships sitting on the dock from mexico which got turned back, 150 countries had their aid rejected.
But you know what, people like me, individual Africans, went on canned food drives and shipped containers to our other AFrican brothers and sisters who live in the US and told us about the drives and things needed.
Packets of nappies, canned goods.e.t.c
We wrote about it and raised awareness in our local papers, both in Nigeria and in the countries where we live in the diaspora.
We donated money, my mother sent money, many sent via their churches and mosques.
We sent clothes, we sent food (mostly they have to be canned food) as most of our food types would have to be quaanteed before they are allowed into the US."
I knew about the nonsense regarding attempted donations from various Latin American and Middle Eastern countries.
I DIDN'T hear any of this about African countries. And it's not just because the US media didn't report it. I don't trust that bunch of Bush Administration stenographers for much of anything, much less the news.
I (and WE) didn't hear of this from African countries because YOU DIDN'T tell us. For the purposes of this conversation, I'll take what you're saying at face value and assume that it is true. [People do lie on the internet. I prefer to try to verify things, but I did want to respond to your comment.]
Why in the world would you expect the US media to tell us about this? You sound like you know better than to expect that. If you want others (including AAs) to know about this, then it's on YOU to get the word out.
We hear the disdain that many Africans express for us. Since that "word" is disseminated by Africans, they could spread this "word" too.
You said, "Now, why am I saying this and risking being insulted amongst other things?."
If I have insulted a commenter, please point that out to me. I try very hard to follow the comment policy I established for this blog. I think that it's a more a matter of some people not being used to being questioned or challenged about certain matters by an AA.
ALL SORTS of people have grown comfortable dictating to us, without any questions or challenges in response.
I'm not under any obligation to assume that anyone is commenting (upon ANY issue, not just this one) in good faith. When people hide behind total anonymity, it makes me suspicious of their motives.
Furthermore, let's be honest: There is MUCH ignorance of African and Africans on the part of AAs. However, there is MUCH arrogance and talking down to AAs from Africans and West Indians. We see and hear the hatred and contempt that a lot of you have for us.
In my eyes, many of you have become just another set of oppressors. I saw the smug, superior attitudes that many Africans and West Indians routinely display toward those AAs who were naive enough to try to reach out to them during my Pan-African days.
I saw the way many of you LAUGH at our dysfunctions and rub salt in our wounds. Meanwhile, your OWN dysfunctional people are back at home. Out of public view.
Many of you come to AA blogs to take pleasure in dissecting AA dysfunctions, while your dysfunction is a forbidden topic. That's what happened with the commenter that I had to ban. An African calling herself "Mary."
For "Mary," everything was fine, good and pleasurable when AA dysfunctions were under discussion, but the moment I pointed out some parallel dysfunctions in African societies, suddenly the conversation wasn't so much FUN anymore.
It didn't take long at all for "Mary" to show her TRUE colors when challenged: If you are curious, I would suggest that you read the exchange I had with this individual in the comments to the Protect Your Stake in the Process: Vote Early post from October 2008.
Now, I do realize that this was just one rude and disrespectful individual. However, I've seen many other foreign Blacks engage in her behavior patterns at AA blogs. Many such persons come to these blogs to insult us and laugh at our problems under the guise of uplifting ALL BW. All the while, NEVER admitting that they are facing problems as women within their OWN societies and cultures.
And these type of people get very touchy if an AA dares to point out some of the problems in THEIR culture. But yet OUR problems are fair game for anybody to examine under a microscope, and discuss as a source of entertainment and amusement.
If AAs are making themselves vulnerable by openly discussing their problems in good faith, foreign Blacks should be willing to do the same with their problems during these conversations. If not, then they should stay out of these conversations.
I'm sick of that behavior. I'm not going to take that off of anybody. I'm going to encourage my fellow AAs to also STOP taking that abuse. THAT sort of behavior is what I'm talking about in this post.
You said, "Well because it never gets said. We do all this crap and nobody says a word about it."
Again, you're going to have to get your own "word" out and stop expecting racist, corrupt media to do it for you.
You said, Could we have sent ships? no It would take months to get to the US, we sent the things we could. Nobody likes to admit gettying aid from Africa. Because afterall Africa is supposed to be this disease ridden place."
Speaking for myself, I know that I don't care WHERE help comes from in a crisis.
_____________________
Greetings, Anonymous!
You said, "In looking over this, this is why I think many Africans do not like to even get into debates about this.
The information is there for all of us to find.
Yet, you still accusee us of not doing anything?
How does one even begin to come back on that?.
How does one even begin to challenge that?."
Like I said in reply to Soul2, AAs don't have to hunt and search to find examples of Africans hating us; we shouldn't have to hunt and search for this information. You see, people who are genuinely interested in good relations make an effort to get GOOD information out.
If you wanted us to know this, you should have said something. Again, I find it mildly amusing to note how quickly some of you wash your hands of the whole "Happy Diaspora Project." Meanwhile, you expect AAs to continue to do unreciprocated and sustained pining for such Pan-African fellowship for CENTURIES.
_____________________
Greetings, Siditty!
You said, "I LOVE THIS POST. I did a post similar to this a while back ago and the mammy word was thrown all around."
Thank you for your kind words about the post. I truly appreciate it. Yep. That "mammy" stuff has bothered me from the beginning. There is the hatefulness underlying the use of this term. Furthermore, it reeks of the plantation. There are other ways of expressing the same thought ["pack mules," etc.]
Peace, blessings and solidarity.
I've always thought the notion of Pan-Africanism was a somewhat silly idea. To me, it's akin to the long-held belief that 'there are no classes of black folk.' While this might have borne us well during the days of slavery and Jim Crow, these days it primarily leaves us in a position of vulnerability to be exploited by others. There are different classes, cultures, mores and folkways amongst black people around the world and yes, even in this country. How could there not be, and in what weird universe could we ever expect to find enough common ground to have true reciprocal unity?
ReplyDeletePart of the discord we find in some African countries today is based in the fact that many of the people have no loyalty outside their own ethnic group. So, if they have no loyalty to others that live within the same country as themselves, why on earth would we expect them to be loyal to us? That's pure madness.
That is why it can be problematic to have these type discussions in a public forum such as a blog. Obviously, I'm not opposed to having them, but if you choose to do so you must be ever-vigilant of the various types of exploiters lingering on the fringes getting their jollies on evidence of our pain and dysfunction. I've said this many times before, we must always be conscious of the words we use and the things we say because it's all too easy for much of this stuff to end up in the hands of those who seek only to destroy us. Whether it be white supremacist sites where I've seen evidence of this with my own eyes, or other sites, it's all too that the vultures are always hovering, seeking to pick our flesh from our bones and hold it aloft as evidence of their own superiority.
We also have to be careful to closely examine and parse the motivation of those who claim to be with us in the empowerment struggle. Many people will claim to be allies, when in fact they seek to do nothing so much as to elevate themselves above us. We've seen this time and time again. And because many of us are literally 'walking wounded,' we have to question our own motivation more stringently than any other. If we find ourselves constantly lashing out with venom and vitriol, as we've been conditioned to do within white supremacist patriarchy it may be time to take a chill and reflect on what our true motivation is.
I've been a part of these online discussions for a very long time, and I've seen time and again how easy it is for it to devolve into nothing but a continuous finger-pointing, they done me wrong session. As I've said many times before, this elevates no one. Indeed, constantly marinating in this madness does nothing but confirm one's victim status. A victim is passive, powerless to overcome their victimhood. It's only when we begin to own our own behavior and seek out better choices that we rise above it.
@khadeja..
ReplyDeleteThe anonymous beneath my post was me, I didn't realise that I hadn't typed my username.
I'm not expecting racist media to do anything for me.
Giving aid is not somethign to shout about. You do not brag about you give to someone when they are downtrodden or going through a bad patch. you give what you can and keep on praying for them.
We cannot force your media to report on what we do.
I don't give up easy, however it is tedious.
I was on siddity's blog when she made the same post. I also had the pleasure of being insulted on by professor Tracey on the WAOD blog.
erm, whilst you are at it, would you also like to address the 'looking down' on Africans that some AA's do?.
You wanna see some AA's in action when they are in Foreign.
I have lived in the US before, and I visit often (work takes me there).
It is a 2-way street. You do not want to know the things people say when they don't know that I am not an African American.
But you know what?, people are cruel and people who are hurting can be cruel.
You say, AA's don't have to search for examples of Africans hating us. I say ditto.
Africans don't have to search for examples of African Americans hating us, belittling us, claiming to know us more than we know we know ourselves, ascribing things to us which we do not do and do not believe in.stealing their birthright, using one example to ascribe a behaviour to all of us.
We really don't have to look far, but why would I focus on that?
Sorry Khadeja... I search for people who love life and have an interest in building. Building things and building people.
Not people who start off on an accusatory note.
It's not giving up, it's knowing when to choose your battles and which wars to fight.
There are many other positive African Americans that I interact with, who do due diligence and seek information from other places other than CNN, FOX e.t.c.
They realise that their media will not portray things in the right light so they go and search for the one which reflects the news they want and are looking for.
I did not wash my hands of anything. I simply said whats the point in arguing with people who have stated that this is how they view you.
This post was not exactly one which carries a tone of discussion.
You rubbished the idea that African countries donated money, I provided you with some information to show you that they did.
Yet you still reject it.
THe Ugandan donation was well publicised in Ugandan TV outlets and on certain African websites at the time. But if you don't look you won't find.
Now you are reaching and saying..
'oh we are washing our hands of Pan Africanism'.
Where did anyone indicate that?.
Why would you think that I would want to stick my head in a place which is filled which such vitriol?.
There have been a few out of line comments here, and you have endorsed them by stating that you agree. It'd be crazy to get in here and start debunking obvious facts.
What would you have me say?
Something like..
'oh remember the Africans you met don't speak for me?'
or
'lets remember that our men our pitting is against each other'
or
'but African men also say that they prefer African American women, that they are more this and that'
or
'AA's call us names in school, we get beaten up, african booty scratcher'
or
'AA's say our men have body odour and smell and are ugly or are this and that'
What?. There's more, more that's a lot more disgusting and a lot more cruel.. but again what is the point?.
People are cruel. I owe it to myself to move past those people and look for postive people to do business with, to talk to, to read and to hang out with'.
So what you misconstrued as 'giving up' was simply my way of saying...
cool... if thats the way you want to see it.. cool.
I'll just move past and focus on the next person who doesn't see it that way and who I can work with.
That's the Nigerian way of thinking.
You also rubbished the Latin and Middle Eastern effort during Katrina and this makes me seriosuly want to question why?
Kuwait gave the biggest donation of any country with no strings attached.
Mexican troops were used on the largest scale ever in the history of conflict between the US and Mexico. (they hadn't stepped foot in the US since the 1800's)
Cuba sent over 1000 doctors (and cuban doctors are world renouned especially since they have one of the best free medical healthcare systems in the world)
The only proviso Iran had for the US, was to open trade borders.
What is your problem with these latin and Mid Eastern countries and their offers..
Please enlighten me.
I pointed out that we couldn't send ships because it would take time...
Well lets put this into context, the Dutch sent their ships that were docked close to America laden with supplies and food.
You know what your govtment did with it?.
THey left it sitting in the dock waiting for approval for soo long that the food supplies were ROTTEN and guess what the US govt still rejected this ship.
They rejected food worth $300,000 from the UK because they said it might contain mad cow disease. But they didn't send it back, they let it rot first and sit in the docks for months before they sent it back.
And food stuff from African nations are quaranteed anyway.
That's why money was more important and pampers for babies and t-shirts, and medical supplies and professionals.
I said already the efforts that I and my friends and my colleagues and my parents, extended family went through to get aid to the US.
The drives we put on at our workplaces, the money collected, the food shipped in private containers...
I see you skipped over that stuff to still condemn and issue contempt.
Again it's cool.
My friend who was on the receiving end didn't.
My other friend who issued a bulletin that help was still needed didn't either.
So from my point of view, I hope you can see why I'd rather deal with those who are willing to work with me rather than point fingers against me.
Why I'd rather deal with people who will not sit back and blame me for not blowing the horn and rubbing it in your face about how much we helped during a time of need.
I hope you see why I said, I can say: 'wow, that's how you think?... erm, well ok then.. cool' and move to the next person who doesn't think like you.
I posted to correct a misconception that you had. I gave you some useful links to explore in order to buttress the point. Instead, you have rubbised them and then levelled another accusation, which I have no idea how you arrived at said conclusion
Excuse me for thinking:
'oh well, that's how she feels, cool' let me look to the next person who doesn't regard me as their enemy.
Finally, I'll say I wish you well in your quest for empowerment, may you achieve all that you hope and wish for in it's entirety.
May that which is in your heart, follow you as you make your journey in life
Greetings, Roslyn!
ReplyDeleteYou said, "Part of the discord we find in some African countries today is based in the fact that many of the people have no loyalty outside their own ethnic group. So, if they have no loyalty to others that live within the same country as themselves, why on earth would we expect them to be loyal to us? That's pure madness."
You know...I never thought of this very logical point you just made. You're right.
You said, "That is why it can be problematic to have these type discussions in a public forum such as a blog. Obviously, I'm not opposed to having them, but if you choose to do so you must be ever-vigilant of the various types of exploiters lingering on the fringes getting their jollies on evidence of our pain and dysfunction. I've said this many times before, we must always be conscious of the words we use and the things we say because it's all too easy for much of this stuff to end up in the hands of those who seek only to destroy us. Whether it be white supremacist sites where I've seen evidence of this with my own eyes, or other sites, it's all too that the vultures are always hovering, seeking to pick our flesh from our bones and hold it aloft as evidence of their own superiority."
{standing ovation} This is exactly the point that I'm warning about with this post!
I look for certain things (over time) when listening to others: (1) Is this person willing to at least consider that perhaps THEIR group is doing something inappropriate? (2) Has this person EVER 'fessed up to dysfunction within their own category (however they define themselves).
This is why I try to be very careful to ALSO mention the inappropriate things that people in the various (overlapping) "categories" that I fit into are doing: From the light-skinned "hairflippers," to the arrogant, smug Negroes born into the Black middle class, to the educated misleadership class, etc.
When a person makes a point of always leaving their "categories" OUTSIDE of any critique, I get suspicious of their motives.
You will notice that during the course of this conversation, the interactions got back on a positive note with those commenters who were willing to consider that maybe there WAS something not cool happening on their end of the ethnic spectrum.
You will also notice that I have consistently mentioned AA wrongdoing and general idiotic behavior throughout this particular conversation.
Being willing to 'fess up to one's group's own mess helps a lot in these sorts of conversations.
You said, "It's only when we begin to own our own behavior and seek out better choices that we rise above it."
Exactly! This is why I try to be careful to bring ALL of the conversations on this blog back to the things that are under OUR direct control: our own behavior.
These "political" discussions are NOT the primary focus of this blog. I would suggest that new readers take the time to read the Inner Slum/Inner Sanctuary series of posts that I mention in the "Welcome New Readers" button on the right directly under the blog masthead.
_____________________
Hello there, Soul2!
Peace and good fortune be upon you on your journeys.
Peace, blessings and solidarity.
I was going to stay out of this discussion but I changed my mind. Disclosure - I am an American of Nigerian descent. I personally believe that it behoves every foreign black woman to care about and fight against the injustices faced by black american women and black american children.
ReplyDeleteWe have a saying in Nigeria (the Igbos specifically) that the guinea fowl (wild hen) should pay close attention to what is done to the chicken (domesticated hen) because the guinea fowl will eventually receive the same treatment. The chicken is, of course, being killed for food. When people run out of chickens to kill, the next target will most likely be the guinea fowl.
I grew up in Nigeria and will always have that as a part of who I am. However, I've lived in the U.S. for over 20 years, and I have made a life here in the U.S. When I walk down the street, people do not see a "Nigerian-american" woman; they see a black woman, plain and simple. Thus, if the quality of life for black american women, guess what, the quality of my life as a black women (regardless of origin) will be impacted negatively at some level and at some point. People who hate black american women probably hate all black women. Since I live here in the U.S. and enjoy the benefits of the sacrifces made by black american men and women throughout history, I have a responsibility to engage in the fight to make sure that black women (american or not) to have a better life. Since I live in the U.S., most of the black women whose lives will be impacted by this fight will be black american women. Duh!
There is no doubt that a lot will be gained if more black american women and black foreign women talked and learned about each other. But that is something that will happen on an individual basis and by choice. It cannot be forced. There are bigger issues to deal with for now.
As for black foreign women who look down on black americans in general, there is a reason why we are here in the U.S. and not back home, wherever that may be. Things ain't so rosy back home. And for my fellow Nigerians, y'all know the issues we got back in Nigeria, so please do not pretend that we are so much better than anyone else. We're not.
Greetings, Nwando!
ReplyDeleteMost of us are probably familiar with the WWII quote about the Nazis:
"First they came for the Gypsies, and I didn't say anything because I wasn't a Gypsy...
Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't say anything because I wasn't a Jew...
Then they came for [name some more victims of the Nazis]...
Then they came for ME, and there wasn't anybody left to say anything."
Well, I read your comment and was reminded of a modern twist to this quote that I saw on The Group News Blog:
"First, they came for... Turns out, first, they came for me!"
I firmly believe that as the economy crashes, additional yucky things are going to start being DIRECTED toward whatever people of color happen to live here. Regardless of whatever internal squabbles we have in progress.
[I'm thinking of how Central Asians who were formerly part of the Soviet Union have been treated in post-Soviet, POOR Russia. It's not a pretty picture. There have been many skinhead attacks on such persons. And even a reported beheading committed by a skinhead group.]
Peace, blessings and solidarity.
I'm an American woman of African descent and I find your blog post very racist and segregationist. What wat's the away at you and the majority of your commentators is jealousy plain and simple. You people are racist as any WM ever was because you have learned his ways. African and Carribean born BP can not help it because the majority of AA don't want the opportunities presented to them on a silver platter. They don't want them because it requires hard work which is something they will not do. What eats a most of you is the reality that you have been living here all of your lives and they come here and leap above you. You people have been indoctrinated by your wp peers thinking that you are better than anyone else but them and it shows. You are fake and crazy. To be Islamic you should know that Qaddafi is also an African, sister girl! You are evil to tell people to turn their backs on human suffering and so are your followers. Religion has messed up so many of you and it's sad. True Peace and blessings, solidarity? Not you eh?
ReplyDeleteAnonymous at 7:31 p.m.
ReplyDelete{chuckling}
Now you know, I could respond to your comment with matching schoolyard-style slurs if I felt like it.
After all, like I said in the post, I'm not a cheek-turning person who's passively accepts aggression. And I have the God-given right to give you the treatment you give to me.
But, unlike you, I left grammar school behind a long time ago. So, let's just try to keep this logical...
On the one hand, you took the time to come here to say: "African and Carribean born BP can not help it because the majority of AA don't want the opportunities presented to them on a silver platter. They don't want them because it requires hard work which is something they will not do. What eats a most of you is the reality that you have been living here all of your lives and they come here and leap above you..."
On the other hand, you follow this up by saying: "...You are evil to tell people to turn their backs on human suffering and so are your followers."
If your folks are all that you claim they are, then you really wouldn't need any charity from us lazy, shiftless AAs!
If your folks are all that you claim they are, then you and yours can meet ALL of the charity-handout needs of those asking for charitable help in your home countries.
Since you and yours couldn't possibly need anything from any of us lazy and shiftless AAs, then why are you reacting like an AGGRESSIVE PANHANDLER who's upset that I won't give you any of my money?
Please be advised that AGGRESSIVE PANHANDLING IS NOT PERMITTED HERE.
{more deeply amused chuckling}
Wishing for you whatever you wish for me.
Yeah,our opportunities were "presented" to us. NO AA EVER had to WORK, and DIE for our rights and opportunities.
ReplyDeleteRiiiiiighhhht.
"And for my fellow Nigerians, y'all know the issues we got back in Nigeria, so please do not pretend that we are so much better than anyone else. We're not."
ReplyDelete@Nwando...I love you for that statement.
a.
Greetings, Forever Loyal!
ReplyDeleteYes, I know...it's silly. I might decide to close the comments to this post after tonight.
The point was to warn discussion participants of how some of their comments can be used to help agendas that they probably wouldn't want to assist.
This seems to have morphed into Khadija vs. A Critique-Resistant Subsection of the Nigerian Immigrant Population. LOL! This type of nonsense is a waste of my time, and a distraction from the mission profile for this blog.
In fact, as I think about this while typing, I AM going to cut this off right now.
Let's all get back to more productive discussions and pursuits!
Peace, blessings and solidarity,
Khadija