This essay is contained in my new book. I'm delighted to announce that The Sojourner's Passport site has launched! You can visit it at http://www.sojournerspassport.com/.
Everyone, I can't thank you enough for your ongoing encouragement and support; I truly appreciate it. Your support is what made this possible. And here's a special shout-out to my web designers at Educo Web Design. They're nice people to deal with, and they do outstanding work!
Peace and blessings,
Khadija Nassif
An effort to stand for justice and oppose the "ruinous traits" listed by Muslim scholars in all their forms: rancor, unhealthy attachments, malice, jealousy, vanity, stinginess, avarice, cowardice, indolence, arrogance, ostentation, heedlessness, anxiety, depression, and oppression.
Thursday, June 25, 2009
An Open Letter To African-American Women Who PUBLICLY State That They Would Never Date/Marry Outside Their Race
39 comments:
Thanks for stopping by! {excited waving}
Please understand that this is not a free speech zone. Profanity and hate speech are not welcome and will not be posted. This blog seeks to foster a courteous, reasoned exchange of ideas. I would ask that before posting, everyone (myself included) seriously consider whether the proposed comment helps or hurts the cause of opposing the ruinous traits listed on the masthead.
Please feel free to add your input to any post at any time. There's no "expiration date" for the issues that are discussed here. I welcome, value, and learn from your contribution! Thank you in advance for your cooperation and your input.
Khadija,
ReplyDeleteI'm honored that you feel my comment warranted special mention. That really means a lot coming from you, because I know your dedication to the upfiftment of BW.
I thinks it's important for BW to realize they don't live in a vacuum.
And past actions/statements can come back to haunt you.
So you should always THINK before you speak.
Words have power. The power to heal, and the power to kill. The power to strengthen and the power to weaken.
The energy that is put forth into the universe is eventually returned.(karma)
Positive energy begets positive returns.
And speaking of the benefits of thinking positively, I came across this article recently and wanted to share.
http://www.time.com/time/health/article/
0,8599,1883402,00.html
"Another interesting trend that emerged from Tindle's analysis was the difference in longevity between white and black women. Pessimistic black women in the study were 33% more likely to have died after eight years than optimistic black women, while white pessimists were only 13% more likely to have succumbed than their optimistic counterparts."
Positivity extends your LIFE.
BW realizing they have a FULL world wide range of dating and mating options - that they are free at any time to partake in - can't help but boost self-confidence and self-esteem.
Happy positive women live longer and get more enjoyment out of life.
BW can start extending their lives by changing their thinking (which changes behavior), anytime they choose.
Felicia,
ReplyDeleteThank you for your kind words. I truly appreciate it.
This particular topic has been another shocking moment for me. Another moment when I realized how far out of step with HUMAN norms some of our collective's behaviors have become.
So many peculiar behaviors have become normalized among us. I don't question some of these behaviors until they're pointed out. I never really considered the MANY ramifications of this particular behavior until its ill effects were pointed out.
I think that it would be helpful for more of us to do some (gentle) intervention when we hear other AA women saying these things. I think a lot of the women saying these things have never thought through the totally unnecessary damage caused by these statements.
I believe that many of them will stop doing this once it's pointed out that it brings them NO benefit. And that NO OTHER group of women is doing this. Not even those women whose societies are seriously at war with Western Whites.
Your point about the power of thoughts and words is well taken. In his latest book, Excuses Begone!, Wayne Dyer points out that every bit of technology that we use only existed in somebody's imagination before being made real. Thought/vision preceded reality with all these wondrous gadgets.
Peace, blessings and solidarity.
This is my first time leaving a comment here but I've been reading your blog for a couple of days. I'm not a woman, so I can't say that I fully understand(or ever will)some of the issues that black women face in America. Nonetheless I think its good that more people are actively seeking solutions to some of the problems that affect black women.
ReplyDeleteFirst of all, let me say that I'm not oppossed to interracial dating/marriage.I agree with almost everything Felicia wrote, that those types of public statements can definitely make it harder for bw to date outside their ethnicity, if they prefer partners of other races.
However, I disagree with her claim that "black men aren't interested in them in the first place". The truth is, men of any race are attracted to women with confidence. I was reading one of your other blog posts, Khadija, and some bw felt it was necessary to ridicule other darkskin bw who say that they never experienced colorism or had trouble attracting bm! Some women commented that these women were merely "white women dipped in chocolate", or something to that effect. Basically, they were saying that the only reason they recieved attention is because of their "nonblack" features, supposedly inherited from european ancestors.I personally don't buy that, I think it's all a matter of confidence and how they carry themselves.
Anywhoo, my question for the women who read this blog and routinely bash black men/negroes is how are IR relationships related to the empowerment of BW and girls?
You guys like to whine about how black men are so color-struck when they choose to date a lightskinned or biracial, or god forbid, a white woman; But if a black woman dates outside her race, it's merely a "preference"!!! LOL
In my lifetime, I've met lots of bw who told me straight up, "I'm not attracted to black men, RESPECT MY PREFERENCE!!!". It's just a nicer way of saying I find dark skin unattractive. Essentially the same thing. The only difference is that they're given the benefit of the doubt that their choice of a partner was in no way influenced by the white mans "brainwashing" tactics that we so often read about.
I know most black guys who comment on these types of blogs are greeted with suspicion (which is understandable)so I hope that nobody assumes that I'm trying to "bring them down" to my level. I just want someone to answer the question if possible.
Felicia drops serious knowledge, yet if she were to set up a site called "Serious Knowledge," SOME AAs would want to grab their hatchets.
ReplyDeleteShe has SHOWN her dedication to the uplift of bw time and time again and she has done this non-stop over these past 3 years. Yet, if SOME AAs knew her mind the way I know her mind, they'd want to grab their hatchets. She has a laser sharp mind that can easily cut through the tons of hooey that is designed to keep bw weighted down, confused, dizzy, scared, and desperate. A lot of bw should be thankful that she's onboard the bw's uplift train. She is truly a circle of light.
This particular topic has been another shocking moment for me. Another moment when I realized how far out of step with HUMAN norms some of our collective's behaviors have become.
So many peculiar behaviors have become normalized among us. I don't question some of these behaviors until they're pointed out. I never really considered the MANY ramifications of this particular behavior until its ill effects were pointed out.
Yes, Khadija, there are very clear or easily discernible reasons why AA women do so poorly in the Quality dating and marriage mart. There's nothing strikingly or outwardly "wrong" with AA women that other women don't also have wrong with them. Many AA women are living wretched lives this morning because of the way they THINK--because thoughts precede actions. That's one of those rare facts I alluded to in my current essay.
Thoughts are practically EVERYTHING (99.9%) because human life is directed by thoughts. Therefore life is mostly a mental experience. It is very true that "Your thoughts will set you free." When you change your thoughts towards a life of freedom, you become freer by the moment.
Even if we take the weight issue, if lots more AA women had loving, Quality mates, they wouldn't even be nearly as big because these Quality mates would relieve them of a big portion of what burdens the women, stresses them out,makes them feel low, and causes them to eat. A Quality mate, while not a magician, would help these women to feel appreciated and loved.
Many bw will say at this point say, "Well, ww and other women are fat too." This is because so many bw use ww as a measuring stick. That's a prime example of flawed thinking.
Instead, we should be determined we're going to use each day to be better than WE were the day before--inch by inch, with the goal of becoming the ultimate Quality woman/person. We shouldn't strive to be copycats at all. A byproduct of becoming a Quality woman is that we can become the YARDSTICK by which others measure themselves--if they choose.
Yep. Lots of ww and other women also are eating to relieve their stress and pain too, but the fact is that many ww also do NOT have good self-esteem and they ALSO, in many instances, don't choose Quality mates. But that's another story.
In his latest book, Excuses Begone!, Wayne Dyer points out that every bit of technology that we use only existed in somebody's imagination before being made real. Thought/vision preceded reality with all these wondrous gadgets.
Exactly! Each of us CAN CHOOSE which thoughts they want to accept, pursue, reify or deify, just like they can choose which of their thoughts or opinions of others they want to trash. I decided I was only going to choose the positive thoughts and opinions and to surround myself MOSTLY (like 90%) with only those people who reinforced that reality.
Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteFor now, I published your comment and I'm responding on the (slight) chance that you're not just another oppressor-troll. However, I AM going to set some conditions before engaging in any further dialogue with you:
1-You need to sign in with a credible (as in not invented just for this purpose) commenter profile. If you're sincerely interested in legitimate dialogue, then there's no need to hide behind anonymity.
2-You need to do some homework of your own before you come back. I'm not going to invest much time in educating you about the context of these discussions. The mission profile for this blog is the upliftment of AA women's spirits, and therefore LIVES. Not to educate men, or non-Blacks, or spend much time dealing with other matters.
There are several BAD-FAITH aspects to your supposed innocent comment/question:
(1) Your willingness to out of hand dismiss the various testimonies that AA women are giving about their life experiences through their comments.
(2) You coming here to try to vent your quibbles from other blogs. Much of what you're referring to is an exchange that Evia had a while back with someone CLAIMING to be a dark-skinned woman. As we can all imagine, she probably gets a LOT of lying, angry trolls in response to her essays. Some of these trolls are probably BM writing in pretending to be BW.
The other part of your quibble is from discussions on yet other blogs. I don't recall any conversation HERE where anybody was saying that they "prefer" non-Black men. So, since that's never been the conversation HERE, why are you coming HERE, and to ME, with that mess?
Don't come here with some mess that you apparently weren't successful with in other venues.-
Anyhoo, your 1st homework assignment is to read the blog post and comments from last year addressing much of this. I gave my observations, and many other BW gave their observations of how BM's colorism actually operates.
There's a large blue button under the blog masthead (and to the right of this blog post) that links to that conversation. The button says, "STOP Letting Biracial, Bicultural, Multicultural, and Light-Skinned Women Wear YOUR Stolen Crown!"-
In an AA cultural atmosphere where Negroes like Ne-Yo and Yung Berg feel comfortable PUBLICLY making colorist statements, I don't understand how you can possibly be unaware of what your "brothers" are doing.
Where have you been?-
With justice in mind.
***Everybody***
ReplyDeleteDON'T respond to Anonymous' comment! Let me deal with that. I'm NOT going to let anybody derail this (or any other) conversation.
Evia,
ReplyDeleteYou said, "Yes, Khadija, there are very clear or easily discernible reasons why AA women do so poorly in the Quality dating and marriage mart. There's nothing strikingly or outwardly "wrong" with AA women that other women don't also have wrong with them. Many AA women are living wretched lives this morning because of the way they THINK--because thoughts precede actions. That's one of those rare facts I alluded to in my current essay."-
Yes. I understand that many of the peculiar practices (such as overeating) that many AA women have latched onto are emotional defense mechanisms in response to pain and stress. I agree that it would be best to solve the problems that are causing the need for these mechanisms.
However, part of the problem is that we've developed an ideology that AGGRESSIVELY defends all of these maladaptive coping mechanisms! That's the origin of the "Big and Beautiful" and "Support My Victimhood" banners.
You said, "Each of us CAN CHOOSE which thoughts they want to accept, pursue, reify or deify, just like they can choose which of their thoughts or opinions of others they want to trash. I decided I was only going to choose the positive thoughts and opinions and to surround myself MOSTLY (like 90%) with only those people who reinforced that reality."-
100% co-sign!
Peace, blessings and solidarity.
Khadija, I know you're more than capable of taking care of this troll, but I just want to point out the glaring tactic being used. Notice how s/he starts by ***pretending*** to be in agreement with Felicia, but then switches to their real purpose. I know s/he supposes that we're too slow to realize this elementary tactic.
ReplyDeleteOne thing this shows is that these trolls are not getting smarter; they're using the same ole stale tactics. That's a good thing because we can easily teach bw how to recognize these tactics. LOL!
Also, some of the trolls switch their gender if they think it'll enable them to be more effective with their poison.
Teachable Moment: It does NOT matter whether the troll is male or female. Whether a gun is fired by a male or female, the bullet still kills you. Therefore, bw must treat all trolls and other enemies the SAME/similar way that they present themselves. That's reciprocity.
This is yet another attempt to keep bw confused, second-guessing themselves, and focused on AA men and to motivate some bw to throw another pity party for bm, by asking themselves: "Are we really being FAIR to the brothas?"
In my lifetime, I've met lots of bw who told me straight up, "I'm not attracted to black men, RESPECT MY PREFERENCE!!!". It's just a nicer way of saying I find dark skin unattractive.
This is simply what you ***claim*** and even if it is true, YOU don't know why these women have this "preference." You're not a mind-reader. I think that in a court of law, this would be called "supposition." You're imposing your thoughts on what these women say. So you're in essence arguing against your own thoughts.
Throughout my life, LOTS of AA females and other black females of all ages have opened up to me and told me their candid thoughts about men. I've only encountered a tiny number of AA women who don't like dark-skinned men. I, personally, am strongly attracted to dark-skinned QUALITY men.
I've known quite a lot of bw from everywhere who don't like AA men BECAUSE of the BEHAVIOR of these men. And if YOU don't like AA women for that whatever reason, then GO away and find other women you DO like. Many AA women these days will NOT be sorry to see you go. Remember that NO ONE belongs to anyone else.
Once these AA women who YOU--and men like you--apparently don't like, can cut the cord on y'all, a LOT of them will be able to find Quality mates in the global village who DO like them and will appreciate and love them for what they do bring to the table, rather than focus on what's "wrong" with them.
Khadija,
ReplyDeleteYou and the other ladies that post here are so on point. It is the first time where I can come to a blog and continuously nod in agreement (Evia's too). I happen to be in BW married to a WM for many years (more than I care to admit as that would possibly reveal just how old I could be LOL)
Thank you and also I love/admire your way of "addressing" certain issues too.
C4L
Footnote: Thankfully, I learned early enough that I only should be focusing on my "self-interests" LOL It has been an amazing journey and I am still enjoying it.
Evia,
ReplyDeleteThank you for your kind words. I do the little I can because I love and believe in US (black women).
Plus, we (bloggers and commenters) needn't run ourselves ragged when it comes to the service we provide. We do what we do based on a time frame that works with our various lifestyles. Our FIRST priority should always be to take care of ourselves.
Because when a woman is run ragged, she's of no use to anyone. Not herself or those she cares about.
After all we've been through as women of African decent planet wide, historically from ALL sides (from without and within our communities), all we've survived and GIVEN to this earth, to history, to people, we DESERVE IMO MORE than your average woman, to LIVE and LOVE VERY VERY WELL without apologies.
There is no doubt that BW are still wanted/desired in the "black community" BUT one has to ask themselves in what regard. It is glaringly apparent that a growing number of BM certainly desire BW as bed warmers and sperm repository's. And also that a decreasing number of BM desire BW as wives and legally married mothers of their children.
That's why it's important for BW to properly vet ALL men regardless of "race".
To make sure she's being desired/wanted for the RIGHT respectable reasons (MARRIAGE) by the RIGHT family oriented, non colorist, well employed, and respectable man.
However, part of the problem is that we've developed an ideology that AGGRESSIVELY defends all of these maladaptive coping mechanisms! That's the origin of the "Big and Beautiful" and "Support My Victimhood" banners.
ReplyDeleteHonestly, I think that because this behavior is normalized, it would be helpful to flatly list what the behaviors are. I know that I too fail to recognize an unhealthy behavior until it's pointed out to me. But even then, there's a lagtime between recognition, and development of the skills needed to address the situation. I think positive belief is important, but if you don't know how to get the skills you need (or what they are) then the positive thinking doesn't get a chance to shine.
I hadn't read a lot of the specifically labeled BW/IR blogs because I'm not at all opposed to dating the rainbow. So I hadn't realized that the posts were about finding quality men (in general) rather than breaking the mindset that only BM are the ones to date.
I don't personally know any BW who is opposed to dating inter-ethnically, but I know women who don't understand why they're having trouble finding a guy, period.
I don't know if there are other readers in that situation, but I really like the posts that list the negative behaviors and offer solutions. It was a real eye-opener for me to see the posts about why it's important to marry (my family doesn't have a strong history of marriage) or how because BW are relied upon to solve everything, and because some of us didn't have strong male role models, we're not used to letting men be courteous in the way they're socialized to be.
Evia,
ReplyDeleteYes, every troll's/Internet Ike Turner's/Ikette's primary goal is TO CHANGE THE SUBJECT. I don't like cracking the whip in these conversations, but please don't feed the potential (I'm being polite) troll anymore. LOL! Let me deal with it.
Now is a good time to suggest that folks read the blog post specifically discussing the most common troll tactics. Here's the beginning of that post:
"Tuesday, March 10, 2009
Table Talk for Activists, Part 4: Handling Internet Ike Turners-
If you are a Black woman blog host who supports Black women and girls, you have to be prepared to handle the Internet Ike Turners that are guaranteed to show up at your site. [Head scarf flutter to Gina, blog host of What About Our Daughters for coining the phrase "Internet Ike Turners."]
Internet Ike Turners are Black men who are enraged at the very idea that any Black woman, anywhere, is thinking about any issue in terms of Black women's interests. You see, Internet Ike Turners are determined to maintain the current status quo of "Black interests" being defined solely as whatever benefits Black men, period.
Internet Ike Turners [IITs] euphemistically refer to this status quo of Black male empowerment at the expense of Black women and children as "Black unity." And they will attack any forum that questions or challenges this status quo.
If you use your blog to question this status quo, then they will attack YOU. They will also seek to disrupt your blog discussions.
RECOGNIZING COMMON IIT TACTICS-
The first step to handling this type of online aggression is to recognize it for what it is: an attack. Too many Black women bloggers misread this behavior as legitimate dissent and discussion.
That's not what the behavior is about at all. It's about derailing, and shutting down, any discussion that might raise Black women's consciousness. I'll focus on the IITs' favorite attack techniques..."
Peace, blessings and solidarity.
C4L,
ReplyDeleteThank you for your kind words. I truly appreciate it.
_____________________
Anna,
You said, "Honestly, I think that because this behavior is normalized, it would be helpful to flatly list what the behaviors are."-
Yes, I'm mulling over doing a series of blog posts about that. Maybe I'll call it "Friendly Fire." LOL!
Peace, blessings and solidarity.
Khadija, I hear ya. And because of a lot of the private notes I get, I know that many bw cannot see through these ITs whether they're online or offline.
ReplyDeleteFelicia, re:
There is no doubt that BW are still wanted/desired in the "black community" BUT one has to ask themselves in what regard. It is glaringly apparent that a growing number of BM certainly desire BW as bed warmers and sperm repository's. And also that a decreasing number of BM desire BW as wives and legally married mothers of their children.
Among some other reasons why some of these guys want a bw is due to pure role reversal. They want a woman who will provide for and protect them with her money and her social capital. They therefore seek bw with good jobs and/or a bw who has good credit. A good social network is a plus.
My 30-something bm cousin said that these guys actually talk about that. OUT LOUD. They don't really care who hears them because they feel they're in the driver's seat anyway. He said they'll even say these things OUT LOUD around professional bw.
My sisterfriend was telling me last week about an early 30s bm (who is a multiple babydaddy). He has a prison record and may be going back to prison quite soon if he loses his case. Anyway, he uses the track (for running)around one of the smaller Ivy League level colleges near here. He usually takes public transportation to get over there since it's across town from where he lives. He told her that he likes going there because of the Ivy League quality of women he meets there.
Anyway, he actually now has a girlfriend he met over there!!! SMH My sisterfriend asked him how he could get a girlfriend when he doesn't have a job and is about to go back to prison. He told her that he doesn't have to have a job to get a woman.
Something has occurred to me regarding this; many women who are virulent about not dating non-black men say they mean white men only, but that they would be willing to date men of non-black men of color. But the damage has been done--being so adamant has narrowed their choices--others presume they mean all non-black men, because only a black man will do.
ReplyDeleteEvia,
ReplyDeleteYep. Part of my agenda is to train some of the readers to NOT give these IITs any attention at all; and certainly not any attention for free.
As you know, it GREATLY frustrates these IITs to be ignored. I'm sure that they've been extremely frustrated by your refusal to publish their comments (unless it provides a teachable moment). And I know that they are really frustrated by your decision to shut down the comments on your blog! LOL!
The IITs have caught the hint that I'm generally going to ignore them.
But too many AA women have a knee-jerk response of replying to anything and everything these individuals blurt out. So, I'm hoping to help more of our readers BREAK this nonproductive habit.
Ladies:
There's NO rational reason to reply to anything/everything that some IIT says. It's a diversionary tactic on their part. Furthermore, since the IITs are of LOW and NO value to AA women, what they think, feel, or believe is totally irrelevant.-
Also, there's NO rational reason to engage with them, or ANY male, for free. By "free," I mean without conditions. More AA women need to learn how to set boundaries, enforce boundaries, and demand something in exchange for the PRIVILEGE of our attention.
Notice that I've set some hoops that Anonymous must jump through before I even entertain the notion of giving his words a single, additional nanosecond of my time.
As a lady of great value, for any male to be granted a moment of my attention is a PRIVILEGE and a BLESSING, NOT a right. Ladies, the same should apply to you!
Let me give an example: I DON'T participate in blog discussions where Negroes are writing in with comments containing profanity. When they do that, they are disrespecting the women who are present in the conversation.
Ladies, when you:
1-participate in those profanity-filled conversations,
2-engage with cursing Negroes online,
3-or worst of all, use profanity yourself online,
you are lowering your perceived worth. You are de-feminizing yourself. You are demonstrating that you are NOT a lady worthy of decorum and respect. You are cooperating with being disrespected.
___________________________
PioneerValleyWoman,
Yes. Whatever the original intention was with these sorts of statements, the collateral damage has been done once they've been made.
Peace, blessings and solidarity.
***Everybody***
ReplyDeleteWhile I'm pondering potential future blog posts about these various de-feminizing mistakes, it occurs to me that this topic overlaps with a lot of pre-existing posts on various other blogs. This includes, among other blogs, the "Free Lessons" that Roslyn has posted on her blog at http://roslynholcomb.wordpress.com/
To me, the main problem with various de-feminizing mistakes is that they destroy women's INHERENT feminine power and "pull."
I'm reminded of one of Roslyn's posts warning women to STOP HANGING ON THE PHONE WITH MEN! LOL! She's right about the fact that the bulk of our "pull" as women is during IN PERSON interactions. Men are very visual. Women lose the edge this provides during interactions by hanging on the phone with men. Furthermore, if a guy wants to take up your time with conversation, he needs to earn that privilege by taking you on an outing.
It's well worth the time to read through her Free Lessons.
Peace, blessings and solidarity.
In other words be more lady like. Play coy like the other race females.
ReplyDeletea.
A.,
ReplyDeleteI wouldn't call it "playing coy." That has some negative connotations that are NOT what I'm talking about.
I would call it maintaining a DIGNIFIED profile. Being a lady (maintaining a dignified profile) can encompass different sorts of personalities. There's no cookie-cutter "lady-like" personality.
However, being coarse and vulgar does NOT enhance any feminine personality. Being coarse and vulgar is a MACHO trait. A macho trait with poor manners, at that.
Why does anyone think the colloquial expression makes reference to "cursing like a sailor." In other words, cursing like a MAN who is a SOLDIER!
Peace, blessings and solidarity.
ReplyDeleteYes, I'm mulling over doing a series of blog posts about that. Maybe I'll call it "Friendly Fire." LOL!
"Suppressive Fire".
It keeps your antagonist immobilized so your people can safely get to cover.
It'd be an excellent title. :)
Khadija said:
ReplyDeleteHowever, being coarse and vulgar does NOT enhance any feminine personality. Being coarse and vulgar is a MACHO trait. A macho trait with poor manners, at that.
...................
Indeed Khadija. Now I am not going tell a dastardly lie and say I have not cursed like a sailor BUT IF I do, it is usually around my very close women friends... when we are being boisterous for no reason at all...a woman's club of sorts.
Obviously people who use excessive curse words do so because they simply do not have the vocabulary to express their thoughts...which is a problem of education...the infamous "dumbing down" that we have heard of... I am a wordsmith...I constantly seek to improve my "state" of mind...for me that includes constant education. I delight in learning new words, and finding ways to use them in my conversations...sometimes I am met with blank stares...but sometimes, one brave person will ask me what I mean, and I whip out my thesaurus, because in all likelihood, I too have forgotten the meaning.... when you have an array of words at your fingertips, then you don't have to delve into profane language to make your point. I literally cringe when I hear a woman (OR a man) expressing themselves thus. It tells me A LOT about them.
Last year, I started a blog I called "Madame Primsy Propper"...it was meant to be tongue in cheek really...about a Victorian era type woman of color, who is most ladylike and demure and outdated almost...but she never forgets she is a lady...her most fervent expression is "Oh me, oh my" with her hand clutched to her usually covered throat...it was supposed to be amusing and witty..and to remind us of our most powerful quality...our femininity. It has the power to quell a savage beast...
Be mindful of a man who feels it is alright to express himself in that vulgar manner previously noted. It means he has no respect for you..it really does.
I am not suggesting anyone should hold back from expressing anger, or emotions really...it's just that there is a way to do it that will convey all you need to, and does not involve the utterance of even one foul word. A ladies ears are delicate things indeed, and should not ever be subject to such monstrosity, nor should certain words ever escape your lips...unless of course, you are in your "woman's club"...then all bets are off.....:-)
And as for "Madame Primsy Propper"...well... she exists, but I am afraid I am woefuly busy, and have not been able to "hear" what she has to say to all the lovely people out here, but she (MPP) would have an instant case of the "vapors" if she heard the frightful language that some employ.
Oh me, oh my..(clutches throat)..
and to think, I have not even had my evening cocktail yet.
(very formal voice)
Ladies, (pause) Goodevening...
"Oh me, oh my"...the "Wordsmith" needs her spellchecker...she actually does know how to spell woefully...her typing is just not the best.
ReplyDeleteMy deepest apologies..
Off for the evening....
I bid you all Adieu.
Anna,
ReplyDelete"Suppressive Fire"? *Smile* Yes, that would be an excellent title. The problem is that this is not what the bulk of AA women are currently doing. Instead, we're busy accidentally shooting ourselves and other AA women. {sigh}
_______________________
Delishmish,
Oh yes, I can also curse like a sailor. However, that is NOT at all my public behavior. And certainly NOT in the presence of guys. As you described for yourself, I reserve that sort of stuff for only in private with the closest of female friends.
I'm not claiming to have an attack of "the vapors" while "clutching my pearls" in reference to this topic. LOL!
I'm simply pointing out that cursing is NOT a good look for a woman who wants to be perceived, and therefore treated, a certain way by men. It's NOT a feminine look.
Especially not for a group of women (err...us) that have been placed in the not-women (and certainly not-ladies) public category for centuries.
You said, "Be mindful of a man who feels it is alright to express himself in that vulgar manner previously noted. It means he has no respect for you..it really does."-
Oh yes, it really DOES mean that! You've made a CRITICAL point here. When a man respects his date/girlfriend/etc., then he won't say vulgar things in her presence. He also won't silently allow other males to say vulgar things in her presence.-
You mentioned "Madame Primsy Propper"... {chuckling} I like her already!-
Peace, blessings and solidarity.
....cursing like a sailor.....
ReplyDeleteMany moons ago (well, not that many, AARP hasn't sent me a card....yet!! lol), I was in the process of cursing like a sailor and a guy friend who was within earshot, came over to me and told me "you are too pretty a young lady to be swearing like that, it is not lady-like". Enough said. I began my quest to moderate my language, especially in public, from that day to this. This man was like an older brother to me and did not wish for me to be percieved as coarse or common, even though I was unaware such a perception was possible/probable.
I would never, have never and will never, use profanity in front of my mother, so I try to give everyone the same respect.
Besides, if you read on a regular basis (or write for that matter), you know it is possible to get your point across without uttering a single profane word.
Peace
I sent this post to my "nothing but a black man" sister. During a conversation she said, "White men don't like black women, why should we like them?" I told her about a study I read stating that black men do not have the same loyalty to bw that they (bw) generally show to them(bm). She refused to believe it. Many bw believe that they lack the femininity to attract men of other races. It's deeply ingrained within many of us. I'd hate to think that for some of us it's too late. It sure seems that way.
ReplyDeleteSo much to recognize here: Yes Felicia is ALWAYS on top of her game! She has this radar that goes straight to the point of the matter and is no Nonsense.
ReplyDeleteI may have mentioned it before, but I know a traditional Muslim woman who clearly thought about her lifestyle and married a wm American man. She and her children are practicing Muslims and unhindered by her husband to do so although they are different religions. I don't know if this works all the time but it is working for them. The point was that she being from another country, met a wm American and clearly vetted him, and thought about the quality of life she could have with this man who adored her and wanted to offer her the best. No regrets. So, if she could do this....yes some bw have so much to learn.
About the sailorspeak. I once asked a friend to not use the fowl and vulgar language around me. She seemed to be offended but complied. She was an educated woman who had a wonderful vocabulary. I guess she thought about the horrible image she was projecting and changed (towards me anyway). By the way, she is still lost and will most likely die single. She refuses to consider the option of non black men. I stopped trying years before the blogs. She never even attempted to look at Evia's blog (which was the only one for a while) and thinks they all are a waste of time. Some bw just don't want to hear and reject it from the onset.
This lady is now 51 and hopelessly lost. There comes a time when you just have to give up and move on to someone who wants to hear logical arguments for expanding one's dating pool.
This one is the type who grew up in a segregated society and can not forgive white people for what they have done. I would understand this if I didn't know so many other women in her age group who also grew up in segregation, now married and living very well with their white and non black husbands. Some of them previously swore off anything non black but somewhere along life, came to the decision that they could be happy in spite of.... and went for it. They saw that their loyalty to bm was not reciprocated and got some reality checks. Nothing like a big dose of reality to bring one to her senses.
Great discussion.
SouthlandDiva,
ReplyDeleteYou said, "This man was like an older brother to me and did not wish for me to be percieved as coarse or common, even though I was unaware such a perception was possible/probable."-
This guy friend did you a huge favor; and you had the sense to listen. Half the time, folks won't listen to anything helpful if it involves correction of their behavior.
______________________
Lormarie,
You said, "I sent this post to my "nothing but a black man" sister. During a conversation she said, "White men don't like black women, why should we like them?"-
How would she know what White MEN, all WM, "like"? This is so off-base on so many levels. First of all, she's not interacting with "all" or probably even "many" WM. Second, a woman doesn't need ALL men to like/love her. All she needs is ONE quality man to love her.
You said, "I told her about a study I read stating that black men do not have the same loyalty to bw that they (bw) generally show to them(bm). She refused to believe it."-
Does anybody need a study to know this: Sidney Poitier, Harry Belafonte, Sean Combs, James Earl Jones, Cuba Gooding Jr., Quincy Jones . . . the list is endless of celebrity Negroes. The list is even longer with everyday Negroes.
You said, "Many bw believe that they lack the femininity to attract men of other races. It's deeply ingrained within many of us. I'd hate to think that for some of us it's too late. It sure seems that way."-
HERE'S the core of the problem! Many AA women have had their self-confidence and very spirits BROKEN by Negro males.
Like Evia pointed out in her recent essay, just compare the way BW are described within the AA collective VERSUS the way we're described outside the AA collective. It's plain to see that all the negativity***and really, SLANDER is what it is***is coming from within. Specifically, it's coming from, and being promoted by, Negro males (primarily from Negro male "artists").
Any AA woman who buys into the limitations and slander that Negro males have been putting out about us will perish.-
_______________________
Lorraine,
You said, "I may have mentioned it before, but I know a traditional Muslim woman who clearly thought about her lifestyle and married a wm American man. She and her children are practicing Muslims and unhindered by her husband to do so although they are different religions."-
It's interesting that you describe this woman as a "traditional" Muslimah. Under common understandings of Islamic belief and law, a Muslim woman is NOT permitted to marry a non-Muslim man. Meanwhile, Muslim men are free to marry Christian and Jewish women.
I suppose the underlying reason for this is that in traditional societies (and certainly the "cave man" eras in which all 3 faiths were revealed), it's the husband who controls the religious upbringing of the children.
However, these are no longer "cave man" times. And this lady has found a husband who did not interfere with her transmitting the faith to her children. No problem, as far as I'm concerned; because Islam was passed on to the children.
Meanwhile, the children of Sunni Negro males are fleeing the faith in droves. [Often due to the outrageously dysfunctional behavior of these Sunni Negro males.] I think of people like the actor Malik Yoba. I think of the (Black) children of Wesley Snipes (who went through a phase of being Muslim earlier in life).
Peace, blessings and solidarity.
Lorraine,
ReplyDeleteYou know me like a book!lol Really, the DBR's (DBRBM and DBRBW) are doing their darnedest to tarnish AA women's image these days because they see more and more AA women escaping.
Or so I've heard thanks to these blogs because really I don't go near ANY form of entertainment, or ANY population of people that have a suicidal mindset like that.
And I say suicidal because if BW bite the dust so do ALL blacks including BM.
So these foolish damaged BM who think they're solely hurting BW are ALSO hurting their own chances of survival.
The current situation being what it is, I feel like I HAVE to focus like a laser beam on the HEART of the matter.
Because some of these BW I believe mistakingly think they have all the time in the world to stay on the fence regarding this expanding your options/"something new" thing.
They DON'T.
If these young BW interested in marriage and children born in wedlock don't start focusing NOW like a laser beam on attracting a good non colorist well employed family oriented man from the global village regardless of "race" they're going to be having MAJOR regrets by the time they hit middle age if not before.
About your friend Lorraine, the thing is she's in denial but not completely.
She pretends to not believe this study (and no one needs a study to prove the obvious and observable) YET she was/is AFRAID of visiting these BW empowerment blogs.
She knows the truth but just can't take seeing it spelled out in black and white.
Anyway, if anything we've all been saying over the years has made a positive difference in ONE black woman's life, I think that's a victory.
Because she'll pass the knowledge down to her children and so on and so on...
Thanks for the education about the Muslimah. My friend is Somalian and wears a hijab(حجاب)Anyway, she and her daughters are nice people. You can see that her hair is thick and long and I asked her about it one day. She told me that if I wanted to see it, I would have to come to her home would I was more than happy to do (not just to see her hair mind you). But just because she was so sweet and was so happy to be in the United States. I did not appreciate the dynamics of IR relationships when I first met Navifah but only later realized the vast differences in bw/wm and bm/ww unions. Through this entire black female empowerment movement (yes it is a movement), I have come to realize a lot of things.
ReplyDeleteYes, this woman was devout and obviously taught her children Islam. It was just not an issue for her wm American husband. I met another black Muslimah from French speaking Morocco (ou ille parle francais) who was such an amazonian beauty. She spoke little English, but with my Spanish and her French we worked it out talking about our husbands. When her's came to pick her up, I saw a short, cute, blonde, blue-eyed wm who had just returned from Africa and proud to show off his wife. I think he was in the Peace Corp. but they met and he obviously loved this woman who towered over him. I am unsure if Aisha was a practicing or secular muslimah as she did not cover at all. She could have even been a model. Bottom line is that she vetted this American man who could change her life for the better and she came to live in the US with him. She took a risk and has probably never looked back. It mattered not one bit that he was so much shorter. She thought about the quality of life she could have living in the US as opposed to the opportunities in her native land. (Filipino and Korean and even Russian women have this down to a science). I lost touch with her but as I reconcile all that I have learned from the blogs, looking back on Aisha's situation, I know that she and her husband are most likely still very happy.
@Felicia,
I honestly don't think my former friend is in any denial. She outright rejects the logical reasoning and arguments for expanding the dating pool. You are right that she doesn't want to see the obvious spelled out in black and white (the pun is sooo intended here lol). THis otherwise intelligent woman almost comes to blows with continued discussion on the issue so I just had to leave her alone. She is not lesbian and regularly checks certain types of bm, but would only consider them for a husband. Strange indeed. But we can rest assured that many other hard cases have made the transition over into open mindedness and expanded their options. That is nice to know.
For your other well on point, about some of these bw on the fence? What happens if you stay in one place too long? You get stiff and need help if you wait too long. Worse yet, you find that so much time has passed that you can't move and are stuck and even with help, the damage is done and they are alone, up in age with no bm prospects and no legacies left with the children they never had. This is my former friend.
Okay, back to the post.
ReplyDeleteI was having a hard time following the post's argument - because this woman (women like her) stated her opinion - she was thus on the defensive - which made her masculine/de-feminized her - which defeminizes all black women and endangers our chances of dating "outside" of the race because no other race of women public states their dating preferences like that?
1. I just have to flat out disagree with you that stating your opinion is only for the realm of men.
2. playing with stereotypes -who are all of these of non-black docile, feminine, non-publicly opinated women who are sweeping up all of the men? i wish you'd use qualifiers - because there are all sorts people with different personalities. Yes, some women (non-black), are docile, "submissive", and into traditional gender roles. But there are many non-black women who are not. Hence, you have an industry of self-help books geared toward this population to show them how to shut up and be more feminine and thus attractive (The Surrendered Wife, The Rules, etc). My point? I'm just tired of always having the Black Woman held up as the abnormal female of all the world's races is all and I wanted to point out that white women "do it too". Which brings me to...
2a) Why, why, why are we still holding up white women as the women to emulate in all things? I've seen complaints enough about the (white female) beauty standards needing to be de-throned, but for everything else - it's "be like the white girls." Get some white friends, eaves drop on the white girls at your job. no white girls within a 50 mile radius? LURK, LURK, LURK around the internet especially personal blogs. From hair (blonds really do receive preferential treatment), to skin, to weight, to health, job related stress, relationships - everybody's got issues. but it seems like the issues amongst the black community is presented as put up to distract and minimize the problems going on in their people's back yard (why do you think poor whites clench so desperately to the myth of racial superiority?)
3. Finally, how is this woman/these women? damaging your interracial relationship chances? I've had non-Black men approach me with some absurd concept of black women gained from watching pop culture are passed by. you're arguing that non-black men are also passing you by because of they might overhear the opinions of this woman. You know what, f--- them. aren't we supporting ir relationships because we believe people are capable in loving the person underneath the skin, not because of its color?
Therefore, any numb skull who is making wide spread assumptions about me and my character because they assume all other people with the same skin tone thinks the same is NOT WORTH YOUR TIME.
From a purely racial perspective, I'm just in the point in my life where I no longer believe that it's the entire responsibility of the oppressed to educate and forgive the oppressers. I shouldn't have to deny shades of my humanity in order to disprove a false stereotype. More to the point, that strategy has been used since the end of slavery, to black women's club groups, to fraternities to the cosby show. psst, i don't think it's working.
Kjen,
ReplyDeleteHmmm...I find your comment interesting on several levels. It seems to me that you're reading things into the post that were never said. [Perhaps due to the distorting effects of hearing things through the funnel of ideology; and the distorting effects of having the underlying assumptions of one's ideology questioned.]
Before I say anything else, let me ask you several questions:
1-Can we agree that AA people in general are doing MANY things that are COMPLETELY out of step with the behavioral norms of every other ethnic group on this planet?
One example is AAs' mass acceptance of the notion that women can/should be expected to raise boys to manhood ALONE. Another example is AAs' mass acceptance of a MAJORITY bastard child rate.
Yet another example is the very existence (and presumably, sales) of a bizarre card that another reader described in a recent comment to another post:
A reader named PioneerValleyWoman said: "I was looking at Father's Day cards recently, and I saw in the section, a card with a picture of a black woman on it, but rather th an it being a card from a woman to a man, this was a "father's day card" for a woman, a mother who operated as a father."-
2-Can we agree that AA people in general are doing MANY things that are COMPLETELY out of step with the behavioral norms of every previoius ethnic group in recorded HUMAN history?
3-If you agree to the above two premises, can we agree that this out of step behavior is causing our downfall?
If you understand these 3 premises, then you'll understand the post. I firmly believe these 3 premises. I believe that we must carefully examine any behavior that we're doing that is COMPLETELY out of step with the other groups of humans on this planet. Because if it's totally out of step with the wide range of other peoples, then it's most likely dysfunctional.
There have been thousands of years of human trial & error in terms of behavior patterns. Behaviors that enhance group survival tend to persist. Behaviors that don't enhance group survival either change or lead to the destruction of that group as a people. Directly or indirectly.
Allrightee, on to your comment:
You said, "1. I just have to flat out disagree with you that stating your opinion is only for the realm of men.-
You're reading things into the post that aren't there. Nobody said that a woman stating her opinion was somehow a bad thing. I said, and Felicia said, that AA women publicly stating this particular opinion---"I would never date/marry outside the race" was a bad strategic move that has negative consequences for the entire collective of AA women.
We also pointed out that NO OTHER RACE OF WOMEN on this planet are making these particular statements in public. Not even those women (Arab women) whose men are actively at war with the White West. Now that I think about it, Vietnamese women also DIDN'T make these sorts of public statements during the height of fighting off first the White French colonialists and then the White American oppressors!
What AAW are doing when we make these particular statements in public is out of step with every other group of women on this planet.
Part 2
ReplyDeleteYou said, "2. playing with stereotypes -who are all of these of non-black docile, feminine, non-publicly opinated women who are sweeping up all of the men?"-
Yet another example of reading things into the post that aren't there. Who said anything about "docile"? We DID talk about femininity. We did NOT talk about being docile. Where are you getting this from? It seems that YOU'RE assuming that "feminine" equals "docile."
Successful social interactions are filled with NUANCE. There's a world of difference between asking "What do you want?" versus "What can I do for you?" versus "How may I help you?" None of these statements are "docile," per se. However, these different ways of asking the same question tend to elicit different perceptions and responses. Again, nuances.
When I choose to use statements #2 or #3 with my coworkers/peers, I'm NOT being docile. It's simply a reflection of my preference for doing PUBLIC things in a classy way.
In response to your question "who's sweeping up all the men," I would refer you to Asian women in America. And I would also suggest that you examine the number of PROMINENT, successful in business non-Asian men who are married to Asian women.
And after examining all of that, I would suggest that you look at AAW's marriage rates, and how many PROMINENT, successful in business men choose AAW. I'm not talking about entertainment celebrities, I'm talking about normal, successful non-Asian men.
You said, "I'm just tired of always having the Black Woman held up as the abnormal female of all the world's races is all and I wanted to point out that white women "do it too". Which brings me to..."-
The problem is that AAW ARE doing ABNORMAL things as a collective. Things like having a MAJORITY bastard child rate. Which leads to things like normalizing the notion of raising children ALONE. Which leads to normalizing the notion of women expecting to raise boys to successful manhood---especially ALONE.
All of this IS grossly ABNORMAL! And this abnormal behavior is destroying us because this sort of non-family arrangement does NOT work. Instead, it leads to poverty, violence and anarchy. And the proof of this is readily observed in Black residential areas.
You said, "2a) Why, why, why are we still holding up white women as the women to emulate in all things? I've seen complaints enough about the (white female) beauty standards needing to be de-throned, but for everything else - it's "be like the white girls."-
Another example of reading things into the post that were NOT there. Who said anything at all about WW? The only women I recall being mentioned in the post were other women of color. I talked about Arab women. Felicia mentioned that "Asian women, Hispanic women, Indian women, and non African-American black women have not shot themselves in the foot!"-
YOU'RE the one talking about WW! And, you're the one devoting a large portion of your comment to WW. What's that about?
You said, "From a purely racial perspective, I'm just in the point in my life where I no longer believe that it's the entire responsibility of the oppressed to educate and forgive the oppressers."-
Who said anything about, or even remotely like, that? Another example of seeing things that were not in the post.
You said, "I shouldn't have to deny shades of my humanity in order to disprove a false stereotype. More to the point, that strategy has been used since the end of slavery, to black women's club groups, to fraternities to the cosby show. psst, i don't think it's working."-
I don't know "what shades of your humanity" that you're talking about.
Furthermore, in terms of your assertion that AAs are making a concerted effort to present ourselves as the WHOLESOME, DIGNIFIED characters in The Cosby Show: Psst, I'll let you in on what must be unknown to you---{whispering} We're NOT doing that!
Peace, blessings and solidarity.
Khadija,
ReplyDeleteWhat I find striking about this whole thing goes back to Evia's points about having an uplifting culture.
All cultures in which the vast majority of people are living productive lives can be found to have what she called a reasonably uplifting culture of some sort, meaning that there are set rules of behavior, patterns, and so forth that encourage positive development across the lifespan.
It is truly ridiculous that this notion of having a positive and uplifting culture is seen as "acting white," as though talking about uplift means whiteness.
And the "acting black" culture certainly is not uplifting today.
You referred to the father's day card I saw. The only time a saw a reference to a similar message, but targeted at whites, was in a political cartoon, something like the New Yorker would publish--where the message is of irony, political commentary, not a genuine message to be given in a true father's day card.
PioneerValleyWoman,
ReplyDeleteWhat strikes me about all of this the more I ponder it is that AA women are UTTERLY ALONE on this planet in carrying this particular banner. This should be a tip-off that it's not a good idea.
We are alone in carrying this particular banner in terms of gender:
We are the ONLY ethnic group of women doing this. Not Asian women(including Vietnamese women during their fight against French/American oppression). Not Latino, South Asian, Arab, or Native American women. Not AFRICAN women. NONE of these other women of color are making these sorts of public statements!
We are also alone in carrying this particular banner in terms of race:
AA males certainly aren't carrying this banner. Look at their higher interracial marriage/dating/sexing rate. Look at the music videos created by AA males!
The fact that nooooobody else is doing this should be a clue to us. Irrespective of ideology or politics.-
Peace, blessings and solidarity.
How would she know what White MEN, all WM, "like"? This is so off-base on so many levels. First of all, she's not interacting with "all" or probably even "many" WM. Second, a woman doesn't need ALL men to like/love her. All she needs is ONE quality man to love her.--Khadija
ReplyDeleteThat's the thing, she doesn't know what all or most are thinking. It's especially strange because I know that she's been hit on by white men a number of times. I think that she has her own racial bias but is simply passing the onus onto white men.
HERE'S the core of the problem! Many AA women have had their self-confidence and very spirits BROKEN by Negro males. --Khadija
And when it all hits the fan, that is something that I WILL NOT FORGET...the negro males who play the largest part in breaking the spirits of black women.
Evia,
ReplyDeleteYou said, "AA women are considered some of the most attractive women in the world "looks-wise" and we're positioned well in the world. It's (1) the crude, defeminized behavior that SOME bw display, (2)the weight, (3), AND this addiction to the masses of DBRbm & ABC men that's sinking AA women. Nothing else. These are all self-esteem related but even these CAN be changed enough to enable these women to make better choices. There are lots of women in the world who don't have the best esteem and they still live satisfying lives."-
Hear, hear! 100% co-sign.
Peace, blessings and solidarity.
Evia said in part:
ReplyDeleteAA women are considered some of the most attractive women in the world "looks-wise" and we're positioned well in the world.
.........................
That's right my Sister....I KNOW I look good (because I work at it actively) AND I ACT like a woman because I AM a beautiful BLACK woman. These words go together very well.
Just got in from the Home Depot. Gardening is hard work, but it burns a lot of calories and makes for very sleek arms (not there yet though..lol) Anyhoo..three different men asked me if I needed help (one I just flat out said no because I could tell he wasn't "right," and I limit contact with such people) I thanked them all graciously though. I enjoy when men act like men (by offering to help Ladies with heavy objects for instance) and I am not afraid to ask for help if I need it.
In my offline life I am not as simple and anecdotal as I may appear to be here (meaning online)...I merely illustrate one of the benefits of being a lady. Men (real ones) really do rush to help you, and despite what Chris Rock believes, it sometimes is just because they ARE men and you are a woman.
Happy Holiday weekend everyone..think of it as Black Woman Dndependence Day too..(for those still so confined...not me..lol)
Hi Kadija,
ReplyDeleteI stumbled on your site quite by accident and I'm glad I did! I've been reading your blog and the blogs of other sisters who are uplifting the bw. It is so needed! A lot of the comments you make are things that have been floating around in my head for years, but you and some others have really crystallized my thoughts for me. This is a movement. This is serious work. You and your sisters are pioneers. I'm behind you 100 percent! Continue the good fight, and more and more bw will come on board, because when they "know better, they'll do better." Thank you!
God Bless You
Celeste,
ReplyDeleteYou're welcome! And May God bless YOU! Thank you for your kind words about the blog. I truly appreciate it.
Peace, blessings and solidarity.