Wednesday, December 31, 2008

"All Colored People That Want to Go To Kansas," Part 2: An Extended Reader's Money Quote from Sister Seeking/Miriam/MaryAnn

The Reader's Money Quote is a statement that is of such insight and importance that it merits frequent and loud repetition. This Reader's Money Quote is from Sister Seeking/Miriam/MaryAnn. She has brilliantly contributed two money quotes in the span of a couple of days! {raised fist salute to Sister Seeking/Miriam/MaryAnn} She laid out a detailed escape plan while commenting on Part 1 of the Self-Determination series.

The participants at this think tank have been discussing the need to escape Black residential areas since the post entitled "All Colored People That Want to Go To Kansas, On 9/5/1877, Can Do So for $5.00." I am truly grateful for the contributions of those audience members who participate in the blog discussions here. Especially when we come together, reason together, and find practical solutions together!

My reply to her comments are in blue. Sister Seeking/Miriam/MaryAnn said:

"Peace and blessings every one:

I’m going to shift my contribution to this discussion to taking steps to get out of black residential areas! I can only speak to my own experience, and I’m NOT presenting my self as an expert on the subject but if any one is interested here are some ideas:

Personal finances:

*Debt management --preferably debt elimination

*Credit repair --preferably raise your credit to the highest score

*Savings-- preferably 30 to 50 % of your income

*Do save for a down payment WATCH OUT for those no money down scams

*Emergency savings 6 to 12 months of living expenses

*Rethink credit cards or pay off your balance every month

*Find more than one way to make money

*Prepare for entrepreneurship don’t just dive in head first

*Think outside the box: how can you truly be self-sufficient?

Real estate:

*Don’t be afraid to try farming communities; homesteads; rural areas. This is my IDEAL living situation for spiritual reasons. If I could do it over again I’d buy a home or land further out in the country.

*Watch out for new communities that have just been built--looks ARE deceiving some times. They may have the all trappings of a middle class even an upper middle class neighborhood but you won’t find out you “got played” until you “got in”.

My girl friend owns vending machines in three new communities that have club houses. My friend had a beverage that was glass packaged and several angry, bitter, white men begged her to not put those bottles in the vending machines because the black teenagers in their neighborhood frequently bust glass on the side walks. The average home cost in this area prior to the recession was a half a million dollars now they are down to three hundred thousand dollars.

One old angry white man in particularly stated “ I’m not racist but black people, Hispanic people, and Asian people got into these homes on sub prime loans but were blue collar workers.” I thought this epidemic only affected working class multiracial neighborhoods like ours but evidently not. So keep that in mind when you are house hunting. The recession will have impact on the quality of families in all residential areas.

*Not ALL multi-racial neighborhoods are safe, and decent places to live. I’d hire a realtor who has thorough knowledge of the area you are interested in living in. Also, don’t leave it up to him or her--own your own decision. I suggest having male relatives or friends check out the area during the evenings and night time. Also, you may want to “study”? the area. Some places people go buck wild during the summer but are shut in during the winter. You may half to research a place a good year before buying home.

*Please keep in mind some of Khadija’s earlier essays about the middle class. In some regions, she is right on point. Don’t expect credentials, or upscale neighborhoods to guarantee your ticket out of unsafe crime ridden black residential areas: for what ever reasons many so called middle class or strivers don’t supervise their pre-teen/teen children well. You’d think if they can afford the home they could afford a nanny or extra curricular activities? NOT.

Social Networks

*My husband ,and I are Muslim but we now are apart of an interfaith fellowship. We’ve found that getting to know people of all religions nurtures our own faith, increases social capital, and if you’re a SAHM this is a great way to meet others if you don’t feel comfortable in secular mother groups.

*This is strictly an opinion, but my experience has taught me to join multiracial groups instead of isolating myself with one racial group. My best mother to mother experiences were not in black mothers group but in mixed mothers groups.

*If your self employed its great to start with “black___________” business organizations but if you want contracts with established businesses or your local government you may want to branch out and do business with all racial groups and pay attention to our largest minority: the Hispanic community and their influence.

Finally, I’m not sure that “I” want to live in a predominately white neighborhood, I do enjoy interacting with ALL people but for those who are worried about KKK land there are predominately white neighborhoods that are not racially hostile or dangerous places to live--and truth be told many of them are not in the new communities that are being built. Speaking of social networks, these can be wonderful places to network in! I personally would not tell some one to go from one hostile place to another. I hope that anything can help some one move on….

: )Good luck!"

Hello there, Sister Seeking/Miriam!

THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU for laying out a detailed escape plan. I co-sign 100%; especially the detail about investigating what prospective areas are like on weekends and late nights. And you're right about the effect of former state wards coming back into Black areas. Black residential areas have already been battered by several earlier waves since the Reagan years:

1-Waves of mentally ill people being dumped back on the streets after many mental health facilities were closed and/or had drastic budget cutbacks.

2-Waves of teenage and now-adult crack babies born during the 1980s who are now parents themselves. Former-crack-baby parents who are raising their children to be even more deranged than themselves.

3-Waves of halfway houses, social service agency branch offices, and other loser-magnets being placed into Black neighborhoods.

4-Waves of Section 8 recipients overrunning previously stable working class and middle class Black neighborhoods.

5-In Chicago, the city has torn down many public housing hellhole projects. What this means is that violent Black criminals are now dispersed throughout MANY Black neighborhoods in the city. Instead of being quarantined into these projects.

6-Waves of paroled criminals coming back to their old stomping grounds within Black residential areas.These waves of industrial-strength, concentrated madness have been added to pre-existing problems such as the disintegrating Black family structure, and Blacks adopting strange White ideas about child-rearing (i.e, a refusal to discipline one's children).

How in the world could anybody seriously think Black residential areas can remain habitable under all of these combined conditions? They can't. They aren't. That's why it's time to roll up out of these places. Peace, blessings and solidarity.

55 comments:

foreverloyal said...

Another way to research an area is to do the ordinary, everyday things you would do if you lived there.
I met a woman at our playground once who didn't live in the neighborhood. She told me it was one of her ways of finding out about the climate of someplace she was considering. She always spent some time on the playground to see if people in the neighborhood were nice.
I thought that was so smart.
So, go to the playground (if you have kids). Go shopping in the local grocery store, order a latte at the Starbucks. Have dinner at a nearby restaurant. Hit the jogging trails or powerwalk around the neighborhood on a Saturday morning.
Really observe if people maintain their properties, and how friendly they are.

blackwomenblowthetrumpet.blogspot.com said...

Hello there Khadija!

Happy New Year!!

{raising a glass of sparkling cider} Here's to another year of fantastic and enlightening online discussions!

As for the comments made by Forever Loyal, I think that it is vitally important to establish criteria for choosing a neighborhood but I don't believe that friendliness is evidence of character.

Jeffrey Dahmer was eating people in his house and his former boss said he was a gracious and polite employee! Countless black women have been raped by men who seemed "friendly" and "respectful" and "helpful".

There are many women who will engage with a wife and if the wife is friendly and personable, she will assume that it is okay to let her children play over there. There are plenty of black girls who were molested by adult friends of the family.

I find that most people act one way in public and another way in the privacy of their own homes and this is why we have to be careful about trying to make assessments based on the "public face" that people present to us.

The same holds true for people we engage with online. There are people who are speaking about how important it is for black women to work together and support each other who then turn around and start back-biting away from the eyes of others. We have to be very discerning about character and not use superficial criteria.

Sister Seeking mentioned so many great points! I remember that I moved to a new city in the South and wound up living in the section of town that was heavily-populated by the Klan. I never had any problems from the Klan the entire time I lived there. They never looked in my direction in passing and I never looked in their direction.

While I grew up in an all-white town, I have usually lived in predominately-white neighborhoods. I honestly don't understand "concerns" that black people have about leaving all-black settings -- even though I know that there is a lot of "deprogramming" that has to occur that has been fostered by family relatives and an acceptance of xenophobia.

My question for you, Khadija is...

Those black women like Michelle Obama who were born in Chicago, lived on the same side of town for nearly all of her life (except for undergrad/grad school) and was already into her 40s when she left the section of town she knew. She had never had much international exposure...she doesn't speak any languages other than English...her children have not been traveling throughout the world and have spent the majority of their lives in Chicago as well...so is it more difficult for them to "de-program"? If so, what does that "de-programming" process consist of?

Peace, blessings and DUNAMIS!
Lisa

Khadija said...

HAPPY NEW YEAR, Everyone!

{raised glass of sparkling apple cider}


Greetings, Forever Loyal!

Yes, I agree that it's important to spend some time in the areas one is researching. At different times of the day; and on both weekdays & weekends.
_____________________

Greetings, Lisa!

Hmmm. Those are interesting questions that you've raised.

I think much of whether or not any serious "deprogramming" is necessary is based on each person's particular experiences. Not everybody who lives in an all-Black area is living a xenophobic, insular, isolated life.

You don't have to go away in order to be open to new experiences, and to not intimidated by new settings.

The reverse is also true: Just because someone has travelled or lived in different areas, does not mean that they are not closed off or xenophobic. I'll give you an example: How many Americans have you noticed overseas that seem to remain in their own cultural bubbles even while travelling and living overseas?

Mind and body are not always located in the same place at the same time.

I physically grew up in one neighborhood. That doesn't mean that my mind was cultivated to be limited to that neighborhood. Or city. Or country.

I grew up in the same all-Black neighborhood on the South Side as Michelle O. I never felt isolated from the larger world. Since we were small, my Dad took me & my brother to see foreign language movies, along with making sure that we were exposed to other different cultural experiences.

I vaguely remember watching a Japanese tea ceremony when I was very small. At another point, my brother & I were sent to an Aikido seminar at the Japanese Cultural Center on the North Side.

As a child, I remember being fascinated with the nasal sounds of the French language while watching subtitled movies. [Suddenly it wasn't quite as amusing anymore when I had to take French later on in grammar school. LOL!]

We did these things on a regular, routine basis. All while living in our comfy, cozy, all-Black middle class neighborhood. We were always citizens of the world in my family; while simultaneously being comfortable in our own identity and culture.

This wasn't a new thing in our family with how my parents raised us. My parents were raised with a similar sensibility, even while growing up poor in the tenements that pre-dated housing projects. My (uneducated AND poor) maternal grandparents always made a point of doing what they could to expose my mother and her siblings to different things.

For example, when one of my mother's older cousins was stationed in Germany, my grandparents made a point of having him send German-language materials back home. When he came home, they made a point of having him teach Mom & other younger children a little German.

On the other hand, I DO see plenty of Black folks who NEVER go to the museums, etc. in their own city! I DO see far too many Black folks who never experience anything outside of the block that they live on. This is crazy. Somebody who's living this sort of closed-off lifestyle probably would need some sort of deprogramming in order to comfortably explore other places.

I'll have to meditate some more on your question about specific deprogramming.

In terms of the counterproductive, anti-fellowship, counter-liberation behavior you described: I've been thinking about doing a post on that very same topic as part of the Table Talk for Activists series.

Part of the problem is that a lot of folks simply don't realize how destructive back-biting, etc. are to any sort of movement. Another part of the problem is that it takes self-discipline to refrain from that sort of behavior. Unfortunately, most Black folks do not cultivate any sort of self-discipline in our lives. In fact, we seem to have developed a cultural aversion to self-discipline.

Peace, blessings and solidarity.

PioneerValleyWoman said...

Happy New Year, Ladies!

Greetings and best of wishes for a wonderful 2009.

I was thinking about your discussion regarding the fall of Saigon, the Holocaust and similarities to black women living today in all-black enclaves.

What is interesting about the South Vietnamese, is their relationship with those whom they thought would save them.

The elite left long around the time the war in Indochine began (with the French). When the French left, many left too, and then the Americans took over. Those who could, left.

The Vietnamese who were left did not have the resources to leave and they were living in a nation torn up by war. They imagined the Americans would save them, only to realize that when the Americans left from the embassy, that was it.

Hostilities had ended for the American military in 1973, but there were advisors left and others attached to the embassy. When the Viet Cong invaded Saigon, the South Vietnamese Army just ran away.

Thus, thousands of people were trying to make their way into the embassy as the Americans left them behind to deal with the mess. Countless advisors and "friends," left behind to deal with the hostilities of the Viet Cong.

As for the Holocaust, the Jews were so assimilated they thought they were accepted, they could not imagine that they would be turned against. They had been living in Germany for centuries, and could not imagine that they would be rounded up and murdered in concentration camps.

Similarities to black women today:

Whom do black women imagine will save them in times of trouble? Anybody? Black men? The Black community? The white society? Themselves?

Can black women see the danger they are in? Can they identify their friends and enemies?

I think of the movie, Hotel Rwanda.

This was mentioned before, that before the attacks began, propaganda had been in place to dehumanize the victims...The perpetrators themselves had already been primed to behave inhumanely.

Sound familiar?

Hutchinson, a reporter, had an article on Alternet, Obama Alone Can't Stop the Surge in Black Murders--some parallels to the U.S.:

...young black males who are murdered or who murder other blacks has jumped forty percent since 2000. The magnitude of the jump and the crisis that it poses is even more astounding since during the same period crime and murder rates overall nationally have plunged....

witchsistah said...

As for all the debate over the state of the neighborhoods and the fear of moving to an all-White one for fear of ending up in "KKK-ville," I think one must think honestly about their lifestyle. As much as we'd all like to believe we'd spend our time going out to various soirees and cultural events, how many of us really want or are going to do that?

If you're an introvert, you're probably going to den like crazy and have your home set up so the vast majority of your entertainment is there. This means you'll probably have some nice, expensive equipment like a nice TV with cable and dvd player to watch your huge dvd collection, a gaming console or a hooked up PC to game and surf the net with. You'll want a secure neighborhood where the denizens tend not to break into each other's cribs and rip each other off. Amenities like theaters, cinemas, public spaces may not be that important to you. You may just make do with a local cafe and be done with it. On the other hand, if you're an extrovert, all that may be essential for you and you'll also add night clubs to that list.

You'll also want to think about transportation. Do yo mind driving everywhere for everything or would you like to be able to walk to say, get groceries or do your laundry? Do you mind your neighborhhood being in easy access of public transportation?

When I was looking for an apartment, I bought a book called something like The Chicago Tenant's Guide. I don't remember the exact title. The book was basically a how-to for looking for an apartment in Chicago. It recommended visiting your prospective neighborhood(s) at different times of the day on various days to see if it changed character before you start checking apartment available adds. It also told you how to decipher the abbreviations and the euphemisms used in apartment ads (like "garden apartment" means "basement apartment"). It also told you what to look for in a lease and what conditions and terms are valid and what are invalid. It also informed you of your rights as a rental tenant in Chicago and where and how to address various grievances.

I'd definitely recommend this book to Chi peeps. Check your local bookstore or Amazon.com to see if there's a similar tome for your area.

Khadija said...

Greetings, Pioneer Valley Woman!

When discussing the fall of Saigon to the North Vietnamese, you said:

"Thus, thousands of people were trying to make their way into the embassy as the Americans left them behind to deal with the mess. Countless advisors and "friends," left behind to deal with the hostilities of the Viet Cong."

Yes, the South Vietnamese were left behind to whatever fate the incoming North Vietnamese had decided for them. Be it summary execution, imprisonment, torture. Whatever. This was no concern of the departing American military.

The key phrase in your statement above is "left behind to deal with the mess." This sums up the state of BW within Black residential areas. BW have been left to whatever fate is decreed for them by the violent BM criminals within these areas.

BM have totally abdicated any responsibility whatsoever for "dealing with the mess" of crime, education, etc.

Those BM with the "good jobs" tend to leave such areas and NEVER look back; much less come back to deal with the mess. The relatively few BM with "good jobs" who remain in Black residential areas tend to look out for their nuclear family and nobody else. So, these men are also NOT assuming any responsibility for dealing with the mass mess.

Those BM within such areas who lack "good jobs" are scavengers living off BW (be it their baby mamas, their mothers, their aunties, etc.). These type of BM are also NOT assuming any responsibility to deal with the mess.

You asked, "Whom do black women imagine will save them in times of trouble? Anybody? Black men? The Black community? The white society? Themselves?

Can black women see the danger they are in? Can they identify their friends and enemies?"


My answer: Unfortunately, too many AA women believe that the Obama-ssiah is going to wave his mighty hand, and inspire BM to "return home" to begin to function as men (i.e,. as protectors and providers). And then all will be right in Black residential areas.

In the midst of this economic "Katrina," these are the AA women who, along with their innocent children, will end up in the condition that Min. Farrakhan often described as "naked, hungry, and out of doors."
_______________________

Greetings, Witchsistah!

I love it when people provide specific, detailed, suggestions. Thank you!

Peace, blessings and solidarity.

witchsistah said...

Obama-ssiah

You know you wrong for that!

BWAAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAAA!!!

Khadija said...

Hello there, Witchsistah!

I picked up the term "Obama-ssiah" from Rev. Lisa. It was just too tasty a quip to let go without repeating. LOL! Unfortunately, it also accurately describes the cult of personality that our people have created around him. {very long sigh}

Those of us who ever wake up from the mass Obama-delirium are in for a rude awakening about the President-elect and the rest of these crossover Negro politicians.

Mark my words: AAs are going to reap the whirlwind when the old-heads like Rev. Baby Daddy & Rev. Hot Comb finally shuffle off this mortal coil. As tainted & problematic as they are, they at least responded to individual Black folks' problems when nobody else would.

Crossover Negroes like the Obama-ssiah don't & won't respond when there's a noose outside your office door. They don't & won't respond when racist White police gun down your college student son. They don't & won't respond to us because they're too busy proving to White folks that they don't have any real connection whatsoever to us.

Unlike Jewish politicians, many of whom have DUAL CITIZENSHIP (if I remember correctly, Rahm Emmanuel has Israeli citizenship), who are constantly looking out for the interests of a foreign country called Israel. And, unlike the way Obama carefully assured the folks at AIPAC that he was committed to protecting Israel's interests.

Meanwhile, Obama didn't promise US anything that specifically addresses OUR concerns. And we're dumb enough to be okay with that because we're satisfied with symbolism. As a result, many of our people will be "naked, hungry, and out of doors." But they'll take comfort in having the first Black president while they shiver in the cold and starve. To each their own. I'm not for THAT program.

Peace, blessings and solidarity.

DeStouet said...

Khadija said:

"Part of the problem is that a lot of folks simply don't realize how destructive back-biting, etc. are to any sort of movement. Another part of the problem is that it takes self-discipline to refrain from that sort of behavior. Unfortunately, most Black folks do not cultivate any sort of self-discipline in our lives. In fact, we seem to have developed a cultural aversion to self-discipline."

I am not an activist of any sort, but this resonated with me because after our disagreement during the "Flawless" discussion, I wrote a post about "Opinionated Americans." In which, I went into a few details about the exchange we had (but I've since deleted it) because upon reading it over about a week ago, I realized it may have been a form of back-biting to you and Lisa(so it is interesting you two are discussing this).

But I didn't write it because of lack of discipline. I wrote it because one of my major quirks is when I disagree with someone about something and that person feels I will never get what they are saying. (I always do if I am meant to) Or they start to include me in a group I feel I don't belong in, which is what I felt you were doing when you started speaking about "Fantasy Island Residents."

Normally whenever people do this (and I have been in lots of discussions when people adopted this attitude towards me), it is because I am not trying to hear what they are saying.

Anyway, I had no business writing the post because I have learned a great deal from your blog and many of the honest contributors. In my opinion (now that I look back) this is a form of destructive back-biting, which I had no business partaking in.

My sincerest apologies. Lesson learned. I will find a better way to say what I wish to express without back-biting again.

daphne said...

At the risk of appearing oversimplistic, I'd like to reference another resource for evaluating an area, specifically for apartment hunters:

www.apartmentratings.com

It's what I used when I was looking to move to a better area. The site allows current and former renters to post their opinions on apartment complexes. It also provides a rating system of different categories such as parking, maintenance, safety, grounds, etc. Granted, opinions by nature are subjective, and it's far from a comprehensive resource, but it could be helpful to read others' perceptions.

Khadija said...

Greetings, DeStouet!

Apology accepted. No harm, no foul. I had no idea about the post you mentioned. Unfortunately, there's always a lot of back-biting going around. I try to stay FAR removed from it. I refuse to be drawn into it.

I've read about the damage this sort of behavior (and some other common behaviors) did to Black civil rights organizations in the 1960s. The FBI took full advantage of the back-biting that many Black activists were involved in. In some cases, the FBI used the back-biting to spark feuds that cost people their lives.

There were shootouts between the Panthers and members of the Kwanzaa founder's organization because of back-biting. There were other Black activist fatalities that had back-biting at their root.

When I mentioned discipline, I'm talking about emotional discipline and movement discipline in this context. Back-biting is a normal, human flaw.

However, any sort of movement, or organized, structured fellowship requires the discipline to resist those urges. Otherwise, there WON'T be any progress because everybody will have fallen out with each other over the back-biting. The Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) strongly warned against back-biting.

Once back-biting becomes entrenched, people won't be able to work together for their common good. The back-biting always eventually gets back to its target, and then there will be a falling out.

Now there are some (thankfully rare) situations that deserve and require a public "blasting." This is different from back-biting. Such as when someone who claims to be part of a struggle is actively, knowingly, and DELIBERATELY collaborating with the opponent. And this needs to be based on clear, undeniable, non-ambiguous EVIDENCE. Enough evidence to keep one from getting successfully sued for slander/libel. Not innuendo.

Even in this situation, this should be the very LAST resort after attempts to reason with the person (and dissuade them from continuing to collaborate) have failed.

All of this requires extreme caution. In the movement context, it's best (for all concerned) to stay far away from anything that even resembles back-biting.

Peace, blessings and solidarity.

witchsistah said...

Khadija,

I agree with you about Black folks seeming addiction to messiahs. First, it was Elijah Muhummad, then MLK then Malcolm. Seems we want everyone else BUT ourselves to be responsible for us to the point we'll try and make a dollar out of fifty-nine cents with folk like Rev. Coattails (Jesse) and Rev. Perm-a-lot (Al). We can't seem to do ish without the instruction of or the blessing of a Black Messiah. And since we're in such need of one, there'll always be one. Either someone'll just volunteer themselves and gank the spotlight or Black folk'll raise one up.

For the last forty years, we've heard BF complain about the quality of our "leaders," none of whom do I remember voting for nor have heard from anyone who has (outside of that showboating presidential candicacy of Rev. Coattails'). I keep asking why in hell do we NEED a leader or leaders? Why can't we just up and do ish for ourselves like other groups in America do? You know why they don't put garbage dumps and incinerators in White neighborhoods of working to upper class level? Because those elected officials know that those folks'll INDIVDUALLY rip them a new one! They'll get off their dead asses and show up to the council/schoolboard/neighborhood association meeting and let their officials know that they're not going to stand for such shenanigans and to not even HOPE for another term if they dare to pass such measures (or even to serve out their current one). They don't form a committee, get a fancy name, get themselves incorporated, con folk into being dues-paying members and then take the money for expensive junkets to big cities in fancy hotels where they're supposedly "brainstorming" and coming up with "action subcommittees" over seaweed wraps and margaritas!

And guess what? Their elected officials CAVE into their desires because they know those folks are ever vigilant. They're never going to sleep.

How many of us once we buy ourselves a house figure "That's it. I'm done," and just care only about our individual house and don't go to the PTA or neighborhood association or block club meetings? And then we want to complain when the neighborhood starts to "turn" because we suddenly realize that "turning" is affecting OUR HOME as well. Property values have plummetted. We no longer feel safe in neighborhoods we once bought into because they were good and we somehow thought that change, which is the only constant, just won't happen to our neck of the woods. We feel that us buying a house and not defaulting on the mortgage is enough to declare ourselves members of that community.

Well, those "busy-body" folk are all UP in those meetings because they want their neighborhoods to STAY nice. They don't want certain types of businesses to bring down the quality of their living spaces. They don't want certain types of folks to be attracted to their area. They don't those folks to be even comfortable in their neighborhoods. Even though my neighborhood is mixed and there are some Black folks living there, you can tell the difference between which ones live there and which ones don't and not just because of dress. The ones that don't live here don't look comfortable here. They walk up and down the main street aimlessly. They never stop into the restaurants which are the sit-down kind and not the "place your order in front of the bulletproof glass window" kind(we only have one fast food chain--Chipotle's). They've never stopped into the local coffeeshop. No, I take it back. They did IN ORDER TO TRY AND STEAL THE TIP JAR! Luckily it was attached to the counter and there were plenty of patrons willing to beat some young punk ass and there was security (paid for by the business owners) that got a full description of them. No one has seen those two morons since. They don't frequent the local bookstores (one's a used one and one's a New Age one).

If they DO go into an establishment, you can tell that they are out of their element and have no idea of what they're even looking at. We have a couple of vintage clothing stores and one that sells new clothes but you won't find their selections in your local department store and damn sure not at your local Rainbow Fashions. The few times I've seen those folks in those stores, they picked through the racks as though they were clothes for aliens. There were no True Religion or Seven Jeans. There were no hooker shoes. There were no hoochie clothes for them to choose from. There were plenty of clothes to pick from if you had a sense of STYLE and knew how to put an outfit together. Hell, the vintage stores are even more forgiving to fuller figures since many of their clothes are from a time when a woman was expected to fill out her outfits.

My husband and I frequent one of the local restaurants that's also a bar sometimes because Saturday is "taco day" when you get three tacos for a ridiculously low amount of money. The place is usually crowded that day. Every now and then some of THOSE folk show up. They drive in. They look around the place like peeps who'd never been anywhere before. They stare at and make comments about my husband and I as if we were curiosities. They probably wonder what *I* am doing there. Then the waitstaff comes and chats with us, and they see we're regulars which implies that I actually live in that area! They notice the wedding rings and the holding of hands and realize that we are married! Meanwhile, they're looking all fidgety like they know they're out of their element.

Now, it may sound like I'm describing some hoity-toity area of the city where there's a dress code for getting inot the places of business. It's not. It's a pretty laid-back, bohemian type of neighborhood with organic farmer's markets in the summer and Tibetan prayer flags and windchimes hanging from our humble porches. But those folks cannot process it and definitely cannot process another Black person not only living there but fitting in and loving it!

Anonymous said...

@ blackwomenblowthetrumpet.blogspot.com

Michelle Obama has travelled internationally with Barack. In his books Dreams of my father and Audacity of Hope, he mentions places that he and family have travelled. He took Michelle to Kenya and England for family visits and weddings. So let us be careful in judging and specualting about Michelle Obama. If you don't know Hawaii is very diverse area. A great place for the girls to visit their diverse family memebers.Heck Barack said it many times that his family is like the United Nations.

witchsistah said...

Okay, I'm starting to feel bad writing these long-ass screeds, but I'll get over it. lol

I can well understand so many of you all's impatience and exasperation with BW who seem to REFUSE to want to live decently (forget about well) and insist on putting themselves and their children in daily harm's way. You all wonder if they can SEE all the harm and devastation that's right in front of them. Hell, we can and we don't even live there! They do or else they wouldn't be trying to make excuses for it. They'd just act like it wasn't there.

And if they can, THEN WHY DON'T THEY JUST RUN?! We've all either done it or are in the process of packing our ish to do it. And I think we're all from varied enough backgrounds so that folks can't throw up an excuse ("You all must be rich/light/biracial/pretty/thin/"good-hurred"/urban/uber-educated/foreign/Northerners/etc.") of why they CAN'T do it.

It's basically why do abuse victims stay around and take the abuse even when they HAVE an out they can take advantage of? Well, you have to understand the mind of an abuse victim. First off, the abuse doesn't come all at once. You don't go out on a first date with some guy and he punches you in the face. All that's going to get his ass is the cops called on him. You definitely will NOT be hanging around to see what comes next from ol' boy.

No, it starts with the psychological warfare, like many of you have stated and given examples of. The abuser has to ready and season his/her victim for the main event when they practice their specialty whether it's verbal-emotional/sexual or physical abuse in full. You've got to make the victim come to the conclusion that they truly deserve the shoddy treatment they're getting.

But the thing is, victims still stay even when they KNOW the situation is truly effed-up. Why? Because the abuser always describes the situation as being provoked by the victim. That implies that the victim has control over the situation. That's the message the victim gets, "You can keep this from happening again if you just learn your lesson!"

Now what that lesson is, that's always a mystery. "If I just learn exactly how he likes his potatoes any given day, he won't beat me." "If I learn exactly what my mother/father wants to hear at any given time, they won't yell at me/call me names/withhold love, caring and support from me." "If I just put on 100 pounds and dress like a troll then men won't be attracted to me and sexually attack me." "If I figure out the exact right thing to say and how exactly to say it, they won't ridicule me and look down on me."

It makes it seem like all the power is truly in the hands of the victim. That's what the victim desperately wants to believe, that they can control and uncontrollable situation. It goes right along with most of the dribble we've been taught about a benevolent universe. If the universe (and by extension God/Goddess or whatever deity you believe in) is good then bad things happening to us must mean we're either bad or wanting in some way. This is a WONDERFUL tool for abusers. We've seen this at work against BW all the time. If men don't want to date us, it must be because we suck in some way and therefore should "work on ourselves." If someone mistreats you, you MUST have brought it on somehow! If a woman is abused then it's her fault for staying/talking to the dude in the first place/existing with a vagina. I remember being a kid of around 14 and being disturbed at the catcalling I'd received on an errand to and from the drugstore. When I told my mother about it, she said that I must have done SOMETHING to attract such behavior.

Now, I look much younger than my age. Same back then, so I not only looked very much underaged I probably looked all of TEN for my fourteen years! I had just come back from the errand, so it couldn't have been my clothing since she had said nothing about my dress. I told her all I did was walk to the store, purchase her items and walk back. I demanded from her to explain WHAT sort of behavior I had exhibited that warranted such crude things to be said about me and my body. All she said was, "Well you must have done SOMETHING!" Way to have your kid's back, mom.

What you need to learn as a recovering abuse victim to break out of the abuse is that the benevolent universe paradigm is bullshit. Sometimes, well, oftentimes, people do mean ish to others simply because they WANT to! They make a conscious choice amongst a variety of options to choose the assholey one. That can be devastating to the victim. It was for me when I realized this about my narcissistic (in the clinical sense), emotionally abusive and neglectful mother. But it was also liberating. I realized I was NOT responsible for her behavior (the old "You MADE me hit you/yell at you/call you everything but a child of God/molest you/rape you!" "I wouldn't do this if you were better/smarter/lighter/prettier/like your brother-sister-cousin/less like your mother-father-grandpa/ma..."). Therefore, I no longer had to find the secret word, tone, look, act that would make her finally act like a mother to me because THERE WAS NONE.

Abusers love to pull the wings off of flies. The victim is the fly. If the abuser wants to get their abuse kick, the reason why is unimportant. They just need a victim to take it. And gaslighting the victim becomes part of their fun. Not only can they mistreat the victim but they can absolve themselves of responsibility and watch the victim try and make sense of an insensible situation as they keep them in a constant state of disequilibrium.

Khadija said...

Hello there, Witchsistah!

While I meditate on your recent comments, let me remind you of the comments policy.

"Profanity and hate speech are not welcome and will not be posted."

Since I don't edit other people's comments, I let it go this time. In the future, I will simply delete any further comments that contain profanity.

Peace, blessings and solidarity.

blackwomenblowthetrumpet.blogspot.com said...

@ Anonymous

Allow me to help you a bit....

This is what I said:
"She had never had much international exposure...she doesn't speak any languages other than English...

I never made a statement that Michelle had not travelled internationally...

Perhaps it would behoove you to take your OWN ADVICE about making judgments...and refrain from inference.

I do often wonder about the commitment of those who make comments "ANONYMOUSLY" though...I wonder about whether they are serious about fostering community in a setting such as this, because fostering community carries with it some basic requirements...

witchsistah said...

Oops.

Sorry.

foreverloyal said...

@ Reverend Lisa,
When looking for someplace to live, I would hope that people would not send their children over to play at the neighbor's just because they are friendly and vigilant in destroying their crabgrass and edging their lawn.
However, it is one thing to consider when moving.
Though your tangent did remind me of another tool: The online sex-offender database. I think every state has one. You can put in a zipcode and see how many registered sex offenders live in the area.

You can also get the local paper and read the crime reports as well as the social activities calendar.

http://www.relocationessentials.com is another tool which tells you how the area's crime rates (for different types of crimes) stacks up to the national.
I just checked mine and found we are below average on every measure.

Sister Seeking/Miriam/MaryAnn said...

Peace and blessings:
This post is for low income, single black women with children who are ready to run for their lives. This post is for low income, single black women who are willing to think outside the box; willing to go underneath or above the system; and are strong both physically, and mentally to reject some aspects of mainstream American life in order to RUN away from dangerous, dysfunctional, and unhealthy situations. There are low income single black women who are AWAKE but don’t know how or where to begin, because their resources are limited. To forget the working class sister like you to me, is to negate this struggle or resistance completely. IMO.

Disclaimer:
Please do not substitute my judgment for your own. ALWAYS consult with an expert ( attorney, physician, psychologist, etc) before making MAJOR life decisions that can affect the well being, and safety of your family. I’m NOT an expert; I’m NOT a scholar; and I’m NOT a clergy woman. These ideas, suggestions, and opinions are from my own life experiences, research, and observations. Please use common sense. Thank you in advance.

I’d like to reiterate this point before presenting my strategy for this working class population of black women, and children:

"Saigon" is falling. The last few helicopters are taking off from the American embassy. -Khadija

Bottom line: The longer you wait to get out, the harder it will be for you. Across the board. It will be harder to escape with each month that passes.-Khadija

This means that you need to start reaching for your crown right now.-Khadija
_____________________________________________________________

1) Before you can physically leave you MUST first MENTALLY, and SPIRITUALLY leave. If you do not do this self work, fitnah ( trials and tribulations) will accompany you WHEREVER you go. Whenever I run into former fosters who claim to have not been damaged by that experience they are immediately suspect to me. They are even more suspect when I find out that never made any effort to get professional help. Its unnatural to grow up outside of a family--any family. It’s impossible to experience THAT DEGREE of: chaos; sexual and physical brutality; emotional and mental abuse; disorientation; prejudice; poverty; and detachment with out being scarred. In fact, a study done by Casey family services found that former fosters experience the same degree of post-traumatic stress disorder as Vietnam vets. Based off what I’m hearing from these blogs, experiencing with the population I refer to public services, and hearing from other folks is ,this behavior is wide spread in black residential areas. “I” believe you can do self work, and SIMANLATNEOUSLY work toward getting out of your situation. I believe YOU CAN do it. Hopefully, the clergy women here can recommend some literature, c.d.’s, or anything that can give you the emotional, and mental weapons to engage in the spiritual warfare your going to face when trying to run away. I personally recommend Bishop T.D. Jakes.

Sister Seeking/Miriam/MaryAnn said...

A) All family members ( your children) need to jump on the bandwagon. You’re going to half to find age appropriate ways and resources to communicate your vision. I personally recommend The 7 Habits of Highly Effective families by Stephen Covey. Don’t allow your children to say “I can’t do it” or “We can’t do it”.
Eliminate ANYONE who is programming your children to remain behind in terrible living conditions MENTALLY. Don’t let your babies bring the drama they are subjected to from other children who can be, and are predators.

B) Learn how to create an internal MUTE button. Tune out ANYONE who is telling YOU, you can’t do it or won’t do it. Don’t let them provoke you to anger, or despair. Ignore them. If everyone around you is a crab in a barrel join a virtual community. Again, hopefully the clergy women can make suggestions here.


2) You need a written plan. I agree with Khadija’s assessment of the time factor here. I’d sit down, and write out a 1-3 year plan.

Here is where I’m going to break away from working within the mainstream American system:

A) If your limited income or credit score or both, will not allow you to purchase a home in a middle class mixed or white neighborhood, you may want to consider Motor home living--this is distinct from trailer park living. This does NOT half to be permanent! This can be a temporary or short term solution ,while your working toward home ownership in a safe, and functional community.

Why?

Profile of an average full time RV community
Senior citizens
Retired 2nd lifers
Religious missionaries
Home school families
Politically and Religiously independent thinkers which led to this choice
Environmentalists
Activists
Predominately white working and middle class
Hispanic migrant workers with “families”
Regulated living conditions in the middle and upper middle income areas
Clean, safe, beautiful, and majestic landscapes
Organized community of people dedicated to preserving the last two justifications

I don’t need to regurgitate the profile of a low income black residential area. The comparisons are obvious. Using section 8 or other affordable dwelling units program is a SCAM many of us buy into. If your goal is to be an independent thinking, self sufficient woman/mother don’t allow the state to dupe you, and take over your life. If the state TRULY cared, the drama from section 8 tenants would have NEVER ran down the neighborhoods in the first place. If you have children, not matter how hard you work on training them, you can not compete with the drama in the public schools, and the drama on the street ALONE. All of your praying, sacrificing, and hard work is being undone by other people. Run away…

Resources:

www.newrver.com/articleindex.html or www.newrver.com

camping.about.com/od/rvadviceandguides/RV_Buyers_Advice_and_Beginners_Guides.htm

http://rvbasics.com/RV-net-links.html

rvtravel.com/blog/rvnow/2007/01/homeschooling-in-rv.html
homeschooling.gomilpitas.com/weblinks/traveling.htm

www.associatedcontent.com/article/105036/living_in_an_rv_with_kids.html
ourloudfamily.com

www.homeschoolnewslink.com/homeschool/articles/vol6iss6/vol6iss6_RVLiving.shtml

B) Run away from: state, non-profit, or religious programs that don’t encourage complete self-sufficiency. My Aunt from the deep south has a saying: once you get out, stay out.” You don’t need the approval of other people for your life style. Our problem in America is that we don’t live according to what our money looks like, but we live according to what some one else’s money looks like. If people disassociate with you because you live in a mobile home SO WHAT those people aren’t going to pay your bills, and care for your children? Let them judge, but while they are judging, keep striving to elevate your family in rank. Remember some state, non-profit, and religious programs have a history of taking over black families when they help out. Run away ( use common sense) from ANYTHING that breaks up your family. Your going to need cash, and fast: considering careers in security, law enforcement, nursing, commercial driving, and child care. Also, find more than one way to make money: considering working as a virtual assistant, telecommuting, or finding a legitimate work at home job on top of your regular job. Consider opening your own child care

Sister Seeking/Miriam/MaryAnn said...

business, transportation business, or contracting your nursing services out. You control your wages, your time, and the terms and conditions you work under so that it doesn’t compete with your ability to provide, protect, and manage your family. This is a problem FOR ALL families but especially black families. If you’re in a life and death situation, find a trustworthy, family member who can keep the kids, and then you work like a dog to save up, and invest your money. Remember to send money to your family member. Also, show them your plan, so they won’t think you’re trying to get over on them. Ignore everyone who says you’re a bad mother because you sent your children away temporarily. They are ignorant: immigrants do it all the time, and that’s one reasons their children out excel ours.

Resources
www.homeeconomiser.com
http://www.yourmoneyoryourlife.org/
http://www.backwoodshome.com/
http://www.momsrefuge.com/index.html
http://www.momsrefuge.com/telecommute/index.html
www.ivaa.org
http://www.virtualassistantjobs.com/
www.vanetworking.com

C) Remove your children from government schools period. Remove your children from the “socialization” that reinforces the madness in the streets. Remove ANYTHING in your home ( t.v., music, etc) that reinforces the madness in the street. Help your children emotionally, and mentally remove themselves from the “socialization” that reinforces the madness. Teach them NOW to run away from severely dysfunctional, and corrupt situations. Home schooling can be a TEMPORARY or short term solution until you can afford a private school or afford to move into a neighborhood with a better public school. Do not listen to people who: a) don’t know any home schoolers b) base their opinions off of irresponsible home schoolers who show up in the news( like the public schools don’t show up in the news) c) are not apart of any organized “reputable” home schooling community and d) are ideologically opposed to home school KNOWING the government school is dangerous. RUN… Single parents can and do home school legally, successfully, and efficiently. Many home school families are open and willing to help single parents--especially those who are like faith out in what ever way they can, because they understand the magnitude of home schooling. One of the biggest problems of strivers is their children--lets just be real. Many of their children have become terrorists, cultist, and predators to not just other peoples children but ADULTS ( Dunbar village anyone). You can NOT compete with LEGIONS of children, and the adults who created them ON TOP OF public schools where many of these children are.

Resources
www.hslda.org

www.home school foundation.org

www.naaha.com National African American Home-schoolers Alliance

www.aahnet.org African American Home-schoolers Network

homeschooling.gomilpitas.com/religion/afrocentric.htm

homeschooling.about.com/od/africanamerican/AfricanAmerican_Homeschooling.htm

singleparents.about.com/od/homelife/Managing_Your_Home_Life_as_a_Single_Parent.htm

www.suite101.com/welcome.cfm/household_management

www.titus2.com/BOOK.htm

www.babycenter.com/0_mothers-groups-how-to-find-one-that-suits-you_11800.bc

http://www.mothersgroups.com/


Again, these are just some ideas for people in a life and death situation. I’m not an expert, and I respect every mama’s choice in what ever she believes is best for her situation. Now I can rest my conscience because I presented solutions, strategies, and resources instead of venting my feelings or opinions. To the silent readers who fit this category, I wish you the very best, and RUN. Nobody is coming to saving you, and your children NOBODY.

Khadija said...

Hello there, Witchsistah!

I've thought about the battered women you mentioned to explain why some BW will remain behind.

I don't have any sympathy for most battered women. I've had too much work-related exposure to them. It's best for the rest of us that they remain left behind because the vast majority of the ones I've encountered are:

Selfish. To the exclusion of any other considerations. ALL they care about is hanging onto the relationship with their batterer. Not their own lives. Not their children's lives. These women put their own gratification first.

Because they put their own gratification first, these women will destroy any sanctuary they come to.

She will bring predators into the previously-safe environment. She will want to bring her batterer with her. She will want to bring her sexual predator boyfriend with her. She will want to bring crackhead cousins with her.

It's best that these type of women remain behind.

Peace, blessings and solidarity.

foreverloyal said...

As-salaamu-alaikum Miriam,

WOW. The mobile home idea is one I would never have thought of. Thank you for that post, I'm sure someone can really use the advice you've given.

witchsistah said...

Khadija,

It's because those women don't understand that you canNOT have a relationship with those folks and NOT have the abuse that comes with it. They're in Never Never Land because they're constantly trying to have a relationship with an abuser without the abuse. For an abuser that's the whole purpose of the relationship! If there's no abuse then why should they even be there!

They haven't gotten the message that if you don't want the abuse, the abuser has to go! You can't hope for or rely on them changing or realizing the abuse hurts you. They know it does. They either don't care or they get off on the pain their causing. I think it's mostly the latter.

I'm basing this on my experience as an emotional abuse victim of my mother. It took me till my late 20's to get out from under her thumb and in the abuse spectrum, I got off LIGHT! I didn't have any children. I had a decent education and finally had a decent enough job to be able to get out. Maybe that was why I was able eventually to clear enough room in my headspace to really start looking at her and her behaviors.

The thing is, you have to finally get sick enough of your situation that you want it to change. You're at the point where you don't care what happens next. You just want THIS situation to END. My mother was great with the "you'll never make it out there without me" talk. But then I figured, "Maybe I won't but I know 1)I'll never come back HERE and 2) at least I won't have to deal with your evil self!"

Those women aren't there. None of us can get them there. They have to arrive themselves especially if any changes they're going to make are going to be meaningful and permanent.

I understand your concerns though about their attachments being dangers not only to them but to those around them, including those living in physical proximity to them. Folks don't want to have to worry about the "new element" tagging along for the ride with these women and these women either allowing it or being lackadaisical about putting an end to it. This is not meant to be one of those "all they need is a hug and everything'll be fine" posts. Folks have a responsibility for the communities their moving TO to keep that community's standards at least at the level it was when they moved in and not being the one to bring in the roaches, human or insect.

Khadija said...

@ Sister Seeking/Miriam:

Great info!
_________________

@Witchsistah:

The more I think about it, the more certain I am that those type of women need to be left behind in the killing fields. They (and the predatory men that they carry around with them like purses) are a threat to the safety of everybody around them.

These women have already demonstrated that they are willing to sacrifice their safety AND EVERYBODY ELSE'S to hang on to a relationship with a predator.

Women like this are a life-threatening liability to everybody & anybody around them. They should be left behind in the Black residential area killing fields.

Peace, blessings and solidarity.

Aphrodite said...

Hello Khadija.


Wow Sister Seeking Miriam,

That was a lot of really good info. Thank you so much for putting that out there.



"*Credit repair --preferably raise your credit to the highest score"



This is an area that I have been interested in for a while and sometimes I help my friends and family.



Here is the link to getting your free annual credit report.


https://www.annualcreditreport.com/cra/index.jsp


If a person wasn't able to do that then here are the numbers and addresses for the three major credit bureaus:


Equifax
P.O. Box 740256
Atlanta, GA 30374
(800)-685-1111



Experian
PO Box 2002
Allen, TX 75013
(888) 397-3742


TransUnion LLC
P.O. Box 2000
Chester, PA 19022
(800) 888-4213



The info above doesn't include your score, (you have to pay for that) but gives you details on what is listed.

One way that someone can get an idea of their score is to go to freecreditreport.com and sign up, but then cancel before the trial period is up. It will not give you all the scores, only one, but you can kind of get an idea of where you stand by looking at that one.



This is a good credit forum that I have used as well as some of my family members in the past for credit repair.


http://consumers.creditnet.com/Discussions/credit-talk/



You have to sign up and become a member, but they have a lot of tips for a person who wants to rehabilitate really bad credit to people who want to improve from good to excellent.


They cover everything in archived posts from advice for people who are being sued, (from those who have been or are currently in that position), garnished, to the laws concerning credit, and even tips and tricks to get around potential negative decisions.

They also cover how to build credit, tips and tricks for getting around not having a long credit history, dealing with identity theft within families etc..


Sometimes people who used to work for banks and collection agencies post there and they give some insider info from time to time.



Another website that is good is the yahoo group who pulled my credit.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/whopulledmycredit/


When you join they have a spreadsheet you can download that tells you what company pulls which credit report - giving you the opportunity to work more intensely on that particular report before applying for credit with the company.

Sister Seeking/Miriam/MaryAnn said...

Wa alaikum Salaam Forever Loyal

: )

Thank you all for the feed back but I can't honestly take credit for it.

One of my biological Aunts actually did nearly all of this to escape the horrid conditions of the deep south ( Alabama and Mississippi) in addition to an abusive husband who kept taking out the stress from racism on her.

Back then, women were encouraged to marry as their primary means of survival. My Aunt did eventually remarry but she made sure that she was self-sufficient before getting married.

I wish I could say she lived happily ever after but relocating to the North in the "big city" brought with it immense challenges in child rearing. All of her praying, sacrifice, and home training for my cousin quickly eroded away when they got there, and he ended up in the penal system. Her, and her new husband had to function with out an extended family; public schools in those days were racially hostile to blacks, but especially black boys, and being the only child for him pushed him out to the streets.

Till this day, My Aunt wishes she would of "kept on keeping on" that is she wished she would of stayed in her mobile home outside of the "big" city in order to raise her son. She also home schooled at a time when it was illegal, when she was transition.

My Aunt and her new husband were working class people. Her husband worked three jobs in fact. It's a shame that their residential area to some degree brought them down.

This is why I advocate home schooling as either a short term or long term solution. Not only does living in a black residential area subject your family to street life but the majority of pubic schools in those areas are simply "big kid" day care centers or holding centers for gangs.

Single family or nuclear families with out an extended family system or some form of community can not compete.

I'm glad in one of Khadija's essay about various class distinctions she mentioned the difference between working class folks and the underclass... back then the majority of working class folks were busy trying to survive and live in peace but that isn't always the case these days. I agree with her assessment that we are not dealing with the same type of black people we were back then.

Salaam

Khadija said...

Hello there, Aphrodite!

Thanks for the info!

Peace, blessings and solidarity.

Khadija said...

From Baltasar Gracian's The Art of Worldly Wisdom:

Aphorism #285

Never die of another's Ill-luck.


Notice those who stick in the mud, and observe how they call others to their aid so as to console themselves with a companion in misfortune. They seek some one to help them to bear misfortune, and often those who turned the cold shoulder on them in prosperity give them now a helping hand. There is great caution needed in helping the drowning without danger to oneself.

[Emphasis added]

Peace, blessings and solidarity.

Aphrodite said...

Hello Khadija- you're welcome. :)


Another point I have been mediating on that Sister Seeking/Miriam brought up is:


"*Don’t be afraid to try farming communities; homesteads; rural areas. This is my IDEAL living situation for spiritual reasons. If I could do it over again I’d buy a home or land further out in the country."





I had thought of this last year not so much as for living, but to create a spiritual retreat for people within my religion. Many times people who are within my religion end up conducting ceremonies in basements and garages and although we are protected by the constitution - I think it best that we avoid the police, humane society/animal rights, and community disapproval from having worship discovered and interrupted.




I started researching this and kind of gave up when I got overwhelmed by school, life etc..


But I want to stress that good deals can be had!


There is a lot of info on the web about undeveloped land for sale. Some developers swoop in and purchase huge tracts and only want to re-sell in huge tracts (100-900 acres), but sometimes you can find smaller companies and even individuals who have tracts/lots/acres to sell.


I found that there are some parts of the country where you can get really good deals. I have seen 1-5 acres (depending on location) go for 100-500 a month.




There are some lots for sale in some homestead communities for as low as $600.00 per lot usually 25'x 120' and some larger lots go for $2700 or less.

I ran across some stripped grazing land in Wyoming for about $100.00 per acre.



A lot of the sellers will go the traditional loan route, but there are some who will do the old mom and pop kind of thing without going through a bank.


Another cool is that if you ever needed to- you really could live off the land. In some places like the Ozarks you could fish, hunt, trap, bee keep or you could harvest native plants such as mushrooms, St. John's Wort, ginseng, watercress, persimmons, wild berries, legumes, wild grasses etc to supplement your income. Or if you have the timber rights you could sell the timber and logs.



At any rate I learned that three things are really important when looking at undeveloped land: water rights, resource rights, and easements. There are a ton of other things involved i.e. drainage, building moratoriums, access (roads), soil etc, but water rights I would say is the first bc someone else or many someone(s)can own the rights to the water on your land - either a pond or creek or even underground water. And you must make sure that you have access to water before buying so that you can dig a well and establish a septic system.


Resource rights are second bc someone can own the right to timber or coal, or any natural resource that is ever found on the land and can make you move in order to have access to it or build access points on or across your land and there is nothing you can do about it.


Easements are also things that you must be aware of before purchase. Someone can pretty much lay claim to a part of your property or a section of your property can be converted for the public good if people use that section without your knowledge even before you buy it.





Two books I can recommend are:


Finding & Buying Your Place in Country (Finding and Buying Your Place in the Country) by Les Scher and Carol Scher

http://www.amazon.com/Finding-Buying-Your-Place-Country/dp/0793141095/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1231015524&sr=1-3

The above includes legal forms.


and



How To Be A Dirt-Smart Buyer of Country Property by Curtis Seltzer

http://www.amazon.com/How-Dirt-Smart-Buyer-Country-Property/dp/0741434431/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1231015524&sr=1-2


These books are so massive, but the cover everything from A to Z.









Another thing that I looked into was premanufactured housing or modular homes as a fast, cheap way to get a property on the land.


You can pay for a manufactured home the traditional way (I recommend shopping around for a loan on your own versus financing through the manufacturer), but there are very few fixed costs so the price is negotiable and usually 25% less than a regularly built home of the same specifications. They also help save on energy costs.


I have seen everything from modular mansions to cottages aka "shotgun houses" and the financing can leave you with monthly payments as low as 200-300 depending on what your specifications are for the house.

You can further cut costs by doing some of the work yourself i.e. drywall etc...

sistrunkqueen said...

blackwomenblowthetrumpet.blogspot.com you seem to be fostering your website/blog not a sense of community. I can read and infer quite well. You gave an underhanded slight toward Michelle about her not being internationally exposed because she does not speak a foreign language. She has travelled internationally and has international in laws through Barack. Again Michelle is very smart and shrew black woman let us give her some credit. Do you have any international experience? Can you speak a foreign language? How is your slighting a fellow sister fostering community or sisterhood?
By the way I speak Spanish and have travelled to Spanish speaking countries and dated interracially.

Aphrodite said...

I also wanted to add that the further west you go - midwest to northwest the cheaper it seems the land gets.


And that the price can go up if the land already has established access to water and electricity.


Also I think there are some cities in the recent past that offered "settlement incentives" for families.


That is not the official name, but I think if I remember correctly that some communities wanted to attract young workers or something to that effect and they would offer tax breaks and other incentives for families to move there. I will have to research this more.

Aphrodite said...

I also had a question for Witchsistah (bc you shared about your mom) or just anyone in general.


How do you deal with family (if they are dysfunctional) when it comes to your quality mates and dating?


I am ashamed of my family and I wouldn't want my potential husband to meet them and I know that would raise some red flags.

DeStouet said...

Sister Seeking did a fantastic job covering this discussion from all angles. Thank you!

The only thing I would like to add (although she has touched on it some) is to live within or below your means. This is how my husband and I are able to afford to live in the neighborhood we currently reside in, which in returns, allows my children to go to a GREAT public school.

We cannot afford to dine out every weekend, we cannot afford to go to the mall every weekend, we cannot afford to upgrade our appliances every other year. If we did that our credit cards would be maxed.

Because we like traveling so much, that is where the rest of our money goes (once the bills are paid, savings is put aside, grocery money is put aside, among a few other things)so we cannot afford to do very much else. We long ago made that choice that traveling was more important and fun than going out every weekend, or buying new clothes whenever a department store has a sale.

Also be thrifty and smart with your money. Most people think that being thrifty means being cheap, but it really doesn't. For example, Victoria Secret's is having their Semi Annual Sale at the moment. This is when both me and my oldest daughter go out to purchase our bra & panties for the next six months, instead of purchasing those items from Target or Walmart when they have those items on the clearance rack for 1.00-10.00. The things from Vicky just last longer than the items I use to purchase from both Target and Walmart, especially the bras. (I can wash those bras a hundred times and they will NOT rip in my washer.)

One last important thing, take care of your electronics and appliances once you bring them home. I know too many black folks who will just throw something away once it no longer works, instead of putting the items into the shop and having them diagnosed and repaired. I recently had my computer repaired, at a local Best Buy, for 75.00 (which included the diagnostic charge).

A year ago, I had to have my refrigerator serviced (because during our relocation from the South to the West, it was stored in a warehouse and when we received it, the freezer would not get cold). It cost us about 148.00 to have it repaired (which included the part). Most of you guys know a refrigerator can cost about one thousand dollars. So, take care of your items, and put them into a shop (if need be) and stop spending unnecessary money.

Khadija said...

My 2 cents:

Casual dates and brand new boyfriends don't need to know all the gory details of "what's wrong with [Relative X]." One mistake that a lot of women make is sharing way too much, and way too personal information, way too soon into a relationship.

Only a man I was engaged to marry would need to know the intimate details of "what's wrong with So & So Relative." Up to that point, I would simply tell my date, new boyfriend, etc. that "So & So and I aren't close." And I would only say that IF & when the subject of me and whoever [my parent, sibling, cousin, etc.] came up.

Telling the person that you're "not close" to So & So gives them fair warning that there's something wrong with So & So. Without the gory details that are inappropriate at early stages. That way, they've been subtly warned in advance of meeting the yucky relative.

Peace, blessings and solidarity.

blackwomenblowthetrumpet.blogspot.com said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
blackwomenblowthetrumpet.blogspot.com said...

@ sistrunkqueen

I will assume that you are the same blogger who previously posted as "ANONYMOUS" and who has now decided to use an online moniker in this blog forum.

Making an ACCURATE AND TRUTHFUL observation about Michelle is hardly "slighting" her.

There are plenty of people who think that NO ONE can share any perspectives about the Obamas unless they are idolizing them. i have noticed many people who react with hostility, outrage and hysteria whenever comments are made about either Michelle or Barack that do not fuel the "Obama-ssiah" mindset.

If anyone makes any commentary that is not gushing over them, it seems to be construed as "bashing" the Obamas. That is completely bogus!

And...

Having "international in-laws" (whatever THAT term means) is not what I am referring to when I mentioned that Michelle doesn't have much international exposure.

Barack has not had THAT MUCH exposure to his Kenyan relatives in the course of his life and he mentions that in interviews....

As for your questions to ME...I hardly see the need to explain ANYTHING about my history or international background to you...although you certainly felt it pertinent to share yours with me. {yawwwwn}

If I may offer some advice about this blog forum...
Khadija is able to check your IP address. Posting comments under different online monikers in order to launch feelings of hostility towards those individuals in this forum who share views that you don't like is not the best way to engage with others in this blog forum...and that type of tone and conduct may even get you banned from the forum entirely.

And...

I stand by the ACCURATE statements that I have made about Michelle. Your additional comments do not provide ANY evidence to refute what I have said...

It probably goes without saying but I will not respond to any further remarks from you in this conversation.

There is nothing of value that I can see in spending any time having any further exchanges with you in this forum.

Sister Seeking/Miriam/MaryAnn said...

@ Aphrodite

Thank you for that information. It's nice to get book recommendations on the blogsphere.

@Destouet

You're right about buying "quality" materials. It's a complete waste of time, and money to buy cheap junk that falls apart.
Also, if you have more than one child buying decent clothing will allow you to pass it on to another sibling.

I appreciate your courage to say what you can and can't afford. I think there is a huge difference between trying to be a better provider versus living above your means. I'm not going to spend the rest of my life pretending to be something I'm not, at my own expense. You can live simply, and maintain high standards. I so agree.

Peace and blessings everyone

sistrunkqueen said...

I have not said anything that would get me banned from this forum. I just asked a few questions that you chose to ignore. That is fine. I notice that if you disagree with something than you are labeled hostile. I can say anything that is logical on this or any site. As sisters in the struggle we need to learn to listen first and react second. I stand by my words about Mrs. Obama too.

LorMarie said...

Countless black women have been raped by men who seemed "friendly" and "respectful" and "helpful".--Rev Lisa

Quite disturbing to say the least.

Speaking of black women and abuse, Glenn Sacks created a post out of my comment regarding the misogyny in rap music. The board is for the most part frequented by white men but there a some black men who comment. It can get a bit one-sided without "our side" of the story.

http://glennsacks.com/blog/?p=3136#comments

Anonymiss said...

Hey Khadija,
Daphne, http://www.apartmentratings.com/ is NOT overly simplistic suggestion. When I moved around a few years back, I did extensive research and that site was helpful.

I also got a lot of info from people who were natives or very familiar with the areas I considered living in.

I also used http://www.zip-codes.com/. It brings up the neighborhood demographics of each zip code.

Google was also a great help for tricky coded words like "cozy" and "comfortable" (those terms are used for shoebox-sized apartments).

Khadija said...

Greetings, Anonymiss!

Thanks for the info! {quiet chuckling about the "code words"...cozy = skybox...more chuckling}

Peace, blessings and solidarity.

Aphrodite said...

Hello Khadija,


YW Miriam, you know those books are massive - the second one is over 700 pages, but it leaves no stone unturned.




Another good place to look to get a breakdown of states and cities is:


http://www.city-data.com/


I have been using them comparing regions and cities.

You click on the state and then a alphabetical city list will pop up giving you population and whether the city is incorporated or not.

When you click on the city you get pictures, then the full rundown from county info, median income, map of the city, age breakdown, gender breakdown, weather, education, occupations, zip codes, climate, housing, hospitals, schools, banks, pollution index, poverty rates, tourism, commute times, crime, gay couples - everything.


They also have top city lists like highest adjusted gross income, or shortest commute etc..

http://www.city-data.com/top2/toplists2.html




There is also a forum on that site where people looking to relocate ask questions about any and everything (from hair salons, to out of state car issues, to movers) and the locals, recent transplants, and people who used to live there respond. This is where you can get good individual neighborhood data and advice.



http://www.city-data.com/forum/

witchsistah said...

I also had a question for Witchsistah (bc you shared about your mom) or just anyone in general.

How do you deal with family (if they are dysfunctional) when it comes to your quality mates and dating?

I am ashamed of my family and I wouldn't want my potential husband to meet them and I know that would raise some red flags.



Hey, Aphrodite,

Sorry I'm late with this, but life does tend to intervene.

I don't know how much my advice would help you because by the time I met my husband, I had been totally (meaning those folk don't even know if I'm dead or alive in the world) estranged from my family for about 5 years. But I had told him all about them including how and why I became estranged from them. It helped that he had his own family crazy to deal with growing up (seemed our moms shared similar symptoms but different diseases) so he could understand not only the idea of family crazy but my particular form.

He once asked me how my family would have taken news of him. I told him the truth, that my mother and sister would not have been happy and not because he was White (though they would have latched onto that excuse as it would have been right there for them) but because he was making me HAPPY! Those chicks would have HATED the mere idea that I was somewhere in the universe not suffering untold pains. It seemed to them, my happiness somehow took away from their lives. I think it was that they could always feel, "Well at least I'm not HER," look down on me and always feel superior to me. Kinda hard to do that if I got what they ain't and am happy when they're not.

I told him my mom would have ACTIVELY tried to break us up. She'd have tried browbeating me with all the talk of being a "White man's whore" and being all sorts of sorry, self-hating, sellout failure of a BW. AND she'd have gone to my then boyfriend, now husband and told him horrid lies about me. She'd have used the "I know I don't know you well and I'd NEVER say such horrible things about my own child, but you seem like such a nice man and I'd HATE to see you make a huge mistake" line and then procede to tell him all sorts of mess against me. My mother had no problem stooping to base lying and smear campaigns to get what she wanted.

All families are dysfunctional meaning that the humans within them have their faults and issues. But you can be dysfunctional without being TOXIC. That's the issue, not how much your family is like The Waltons, [/dating self] but if they're toxic.

If your family is toxic then you'll want to keep your man and them as far as possible from one another for as long as possible because you'll need to inoculate him from them. First off, you'll need to spend time around him to show him what a wonderful person you are, not perfect, but wonderful. He needs to be around you long enough to see it's not an act or a front but really who you are so when he meets your crazy family he can know that you're not like them and won't turn into them because he sees you're committed to a very different life.

Also, when appropriate and not too soon, tell him things about your family in dribs and drabs. Don't start off by telling him long screeds against your family. You'll sound like someone with "issues" and simply a complainer. He'll wonder what you're saying about him when he's not around. Mention these dribs matter-of-factly, and I cannot emphasize this enough, NOT TOO SOON IN THE RELATIONSHIP. One mistake women constantly make is trying to force emotional intimacy too quickly in relationships. It just makes you look needy and nuts. And the dribs and drabs should be few and far between to start with.

If your family's like mine, I'd recommend you not even tell them you're seeing someone lest they try and sabotage it. If they're like mine, they'll basically ride you constantly, without ceasing till you give into their wants and end a fulfilling relationship. I'd even recommend leaving those folk in the dust and estranging yourself from them. Family like that is nothing but a dead albatross, forget that, a 2-ton weight around your neck. They'll work overtime to bring you down because they cannot stand to see you succeed and be happy for whatever reason (usually because they've never managed to and want to believe that it was all somehow impossible. You actually living well would bring proof to that lie).

If he starts asking you more pointed questions about your family relating to "Why haven't I met any of them?" then tell him the truth. Him asking the question shows it's the right time to go into those stories. If they don't know about him tell him and tell him WHY (that it has nothing to do with him or that you're ashamed of him or his race but that your family are a bunch of asshats who would not leave you in peace if they knew you had a man that made you happy). I'd still keep it to a couple of stories that illustrate their major crazy, leaving the ones showing their minor crazy for other times. You want him to get the message not overwhelm him.

You'll also need him to be a united front with you against your family when you do introduce them to each other. My husband would have been against my mother and sister so when they'd go into their slander against me to try and get him to dump me, he'd know they were full of it and would think worse of THEM for being so evil, selfish and spiteful.

Also, be prepared for your family to treat the both of you like Public Enemy #s 1 and 2. If my mom and sis saw that their strategies were having no effect, that I was still with him and he with me and we still loved each other, then they'd have to try and excise me out and away from the rest of their family. I'd have to get cut away like a reverse tumor, the only set of healthy cells in a cancerous body. They couldn't have me around with my loving husband/boyfriend looking all happy while they're trying to drag me through the mud to other folks.

I hate to say it, but family is often our worst enemy.

Aphrodite said...

Witchsistah,

That was a lot of info. Thank you so much for your response.

And I must say you are hysterical. :)

Aphrodite said...

I also wanted to add that some organizations like the YWCA in some areas offer transitional housing (apts) for women and their children who are in abusive situations.

I think that you must be employed, but the amount you will pay in rent is minimal - in relation to your income and you have 6 months to a year that you can live there until you transition to better conditions.


This could be an option for someone who has very little resources, but is determined to get a plan together.


Also some catholic charities donate cars and other items (don't know all the particulars) to people who are trying to get on their feet and in better circumstances. I remember a friend of mine was helping a family of Mexican immigrants and they were given a used car by a catholic charity.

foreverloyal said...

Wasn't sure where to put this, so I chose this post.
Today on NPR the Diane Reem show will have a discussion about survival and the traits of those who survive hard times or tragic incidents.
Check your local listings, I think it will be worth a listen.

Khadija said...

Greetings, ForeverLoyal!

Thanks for the info! I'll try to remember to check it out.

Peace, blessings and solidarity.

Aphrodite said...

Hello Khadija,

I always had my suspicions that it cost more to be poor, but the Washington Posy confirmed it:


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/05/17/AR2009051702053.html?g=0

Khadija said...

Aphrodite,

Thanks for the article. It was very interesting. It's not "pc" to say this, but most poor people compound their financial problems by making dumb choices.

For example, there's no real reason for not having a checking account at a bank. That one step eliminates dealing with check-cashing operations. There's no real reason for not saving your money and waiting to buy electronic goodies, etc. outright. This eliminates dealing with the "rent to own" companies that charge you more for inferior quality goods.

The reality is that the poor are usually complicit in their own economic exploitation.

Peace, blessings and solidarity.

Aphrodite said...

Hello Khadija,


I have noticed that too.

Living in different neighborhoods was an eye opener as far as quality of life goes for me.

I just wanted to put this out there for some AA women who may be hesitant still thinking that it costs a lot to 'escape' or that they can't afford a better neighborhood.

Khadija said...

Everybody (especially the gullible Black folks who come to Black blogs to worry about---and champion---the interests of self-proclaimed "biracials, biculturals, multiculturals, and Cablanasians"):

I'm publishing this "proud hair-flipping biracial's" comment because I want you to see it.

**DON'T respond to this creature. I won't publish comments that directly reply to this racist beast that felt compelled to enter our conversation.**

I published this comment (and I'm reposting it here) because I want some of you naive Black individuals who believe that the "don't you dare call me Black"-"biracials" are "just celebrating all of who they are" . . . to see for yourselves how some of these "biracial" creatures feel about Black people.

Now, I won't waste much time dissecting the arrogance of this "biracial" creature trying to dictate my observations of other "biracial" creatures' behaviors while I was in law school.

For one example, I will note that, at least during my 3 years in law school, EVERY single dime of the stipends that the "biracials" that went to my law school held their hands out to receive from one BLACK organization . . . came from contributions from the BLACK people who attended the fundraisers hosted by that particular BLACK organization.

I know this because some of my relatives were members of the organization, and heavily involved in the fundraising events that created these stipends designated for BLACK law students. Nonblacks did not attend those fundraising events, which were all community-based.

Khadija said...

Part 2

Anyhoo, here is the "proud hair flipper's" comment (my editorial comment to follow):

samanthaboom has left a new comment on your post "Self-Determination, Part 2: A Case Study of How On...":

Proud hair-flipping biracial here.

I'm not listening to any angry hypocrite forward some lame line of: Excuse dark skin female's bad behavior of name-calling, getting physical, saying mean things, being unfriendly and having an attitude. Overlook that (cuz they had good reason to behave so vilely) and place them first since it's all the biracial and light-skinned womens' fault for, well, being born biracial and light-skinned with light eyes and hair that flips.

I feel sorry for any biracial that lets some angry black chick dictate how they should identify and demand they erroneously label themselves "black" when they are, in FACT, biracial! And who cares if any dark angry person/group supposedly "cut off" biracials, multiracials etc.? I know I don't as it takes nothing out of our pockets or dampens anything in our lives but, I say, they should think twice cuz we make them look goooood!

Outside of male athletes or hip-hoppers, few dark skins in this country have considerable money or power any ol' way. Even historically, often it was the light and/or mixed like Dr. Charles Drew, Booker T. Washington, Langston Hughes, Thurgood Marshall or Lena Horne or currently Halle Berry, Mariah Carey and, now, Barack Obama etc. etc. that accomplished, excelled in education, accumulated wealth, started business or made history.

Kick us out and remain a poverty-stricken, incapable-of-pulling-yourselves-out-of-the-pit-on-your-own, non-contributor to society that constantly has your hands out demanding assistance like the African-looking Haitians in your backyard. Haitians have had their own dang country for centuries - where 95% of the people are all dark-skinned with afro-hair - yet they haven't been able to get themselves, their self-esteem or their country together for 200 years, so good luck!"

Khadija said...

Part 3 (still quoting from the racist, "proud hair-flipping" beast's comment):

And what is this whining about biracials stealing 'fellowships, scholarships, stipends and set-asides that were created by and for black people"?

#1 The writer can provide zero proof (with credible links) or quantify her baseless claim of biracials 'stealing black people's scholarships'. She can't because that is called hyperbole - also known as bullsh*t. It's a shame so many females are too lacking to realize that and eating up the things this Khadije chick is spewing and slobbering.

#2 IT AIN'T YOUR (BLACK AMERICAN'S) MONEY and, primarily, scholarship dollars come from whites. You can't tell whites what to do with THEIR money and if they choose to set up W or X fellowship and fund Y or Z scholarship and make it available to those who are African American, biracial, Latino or Asian, that is THEIR business and right. You've NO POWER to change that so keep on with your stereotypical black woman's attitude swirling your neck, talking loud and whining about it.

#3 Black Americans have been too busy wasting billions on perms, hair salons, outlandish hairstyles, cars and clothes (things that have no value or depreciate) instead of saving and pooling. Had they not, maybe they'd have the equivalent of quality and prestigious institutions like the Catholic Notre Dame, Mormon Brigham Young or Jewish Brandeis some Microsofts and Googles or have built more businesses and amassed/passed down wealth to their children. All that instead of a few HBCUs (many of which were founded and/or funded by white abolitionists and Quakers). Outside of Howard or maybe Spelman or Morehouse, too many of them now turn out students that can barely compete and spent too much time partying and going to step shows. Even now, middle class black American students are scoring low on standardized tests and being outscored/outperformed by biracials, children of immigrants, and others from the Caribbean and continent.

IF you allow these comments to be posted (which I doubt b/c I question whether you have the courage) it's OK to fire back. I'm strong and beautiful enough to take it all in stride."

Khadija said...

Part 4

I don't want you to respond to this creature because it is singularly unimportant. What it thinks, about anything at all, is irrelevant.

My point is that I want you to STOP supporting people who HATE you. PURIFY your money, your time, your energy, and your effort from ever having any connection to creatures like the thing that submitted that comment. CLEANSE your resources of ever having contact with demons like the one that submitted that anti-Black racist comment (from a blocked profile, so we can't go visit it at it's site---cowardly, as usual).

Remember the Tigger comments/jokes that I quoted in an earlier conversation? Notice how Tigger and this particular "biracial" creature talk just like Klan members. Interesting that so many Black parents in IR relationships raise Black-hating "biracial" racists who sound just like the Klan. That's quite a (disgraceful) accomplishment.

And some of you are foolish enough to worry about the fate of these types of "don't you dare call me Black" "biracial" creatures.

Here's your homework assignment so you can understand the spirit in which those types of "don't you dare call me Black"-biracials are coming from: Go to Wikipedia or any other research source and look up the following "biracial" individual from Africa: Tippu Tib (alternate spelling Tippu Tib).


I know it's hard for most of you to do that. I know that most AAs were programmed from slavery times on to be "fairer than fair" to outsiders (of any kind, including the self-proclaimed "don't you dare call me Black" biracials).

What about being fair to yourself and your children? Think about it.

Peace, blessings and solidarity.