Monday, October 27, 2008

Ladies, We are on our Own: Help is NOT on the Way

From the Department of Help is NOT on the Way:

Here's the link to an exchange I (and a handful of others) recently had with an immigrant Muslim. Basically, this individual feels free to come to a Black Orthodox Muslim site to tell us that immigrant Muslims' problems are more worthy of Black people's attention than our own. http://singularvoice.wordpress.com/2008/10/25/cast-down-your-bucket-where-you-are-the-actual-voice-of-booker-t-washington/

I'm posting this to emphasize a point that ALL Black women need to understand, in order to LITERALLY save our own lives and our children's lives:

We are on our own. Help is NOT on the way from the vast majority of Black men. No matter what the problem consists of. Be it disrespect from outsiders (like the above example), violent crime, or anything else that might affect us and our children.
The vast majority of Black men are slaves. By definition, a slave cannot protect anything or anyone other than his master. By definition, a slave knows better than to even try to protect anything or anyone other than his master's interests.

All across this planet, whenever a Black man encounters any other type of man, the Black man will almost always submit to the other man's will. Sadly, this includes Muslim Black men. Don't believe the hype about Muslim Black men. They are as servile as the rest. Ironically, the Muslim Black men with the highest probability of standing up are the ones that we "orthodox" Muslims often denounce as "cult" members: the men of the Nation of Islam.

I'm pulling the cover off of this situation because I know that many Black women are still under the mistaken belief that Muslim Black men can be counted upon to defend Black women and children. This is one example of how "orthodox" African-American Muslims are riding the coattails of the Nation of Islam's good works among Black folks.

I will admit that in responding to the immigrant Muslim, I broke my own vow to NOT carry the burden of Black folks' collective fate on my back. It's NOT my job as a woman to do that. Carrying all of the burdens for the so-called Black community is killing Black women. We need to stop doing this. For the most part, I have stopped doing this.

In this case, I made an exception and responded because: (1) the immigrant's statement was intolerable; (2) I know that others may not have the facts at their fingertips that I sometimes have; and (3) I knew that very few, if any, Muslim Black men (other than the blog host) would stand up to this Arab/Pakistani. So far, it looks like a "grand" total of 4 men (including the blog host) stood up to this arrogant immigrant Muslim. Despite the fact that I politely called them out about their cringing silence.

I am not surprised.

I am not calling attention to this to stoke anger against Black men. The situation is what it is. I am emphasizing this point to make it clear that we are on our own. I'm saying this to encourage all of us to assume full responsibility for saving our own lives.

Currently, Black women are on our own. It does NOT have to remain that way. The first step to a better life for ourselves is to stop hitching our fate to Black men! Black men have long since disconnected from Black women and Black children. If you look at the A Singular Voice site, you'll find a post where the host is trying to tell other Black men that purchasing mail order Arab wives from Morocco is not the answer. Black men are not waiting for us. We should stop waiting for them, and move on.

There are many other loving and lovable men in this country, and on this planet. There are other types of men who are able and willing to be honorable husbands, protectors, and providers for us. Spread the word to the rest of our sisters that they need to: (1) STOP socializing in all-Black settings; and (2) STOP limiting themselves to only considering Black men as potential husbands. The sooner more Black women take these two steps, the sooner our lives will drastically improve.

48 comments:

Anonymous said...

Good post.

Everything you've stated is easily observable on an international scale. Honestly, I just turned 40 this year and can't think of a time when this wasn't the case.

Now their have always been individual black men (and groups of them) that do NOT fit the description you've laid out.

And I've been BLESSED to have such men in my family as have other women of color.

However, exceptions don't make the rule.

IMO overall - as a group - what you've stated is correct for a growing number of black males.

You stated...

"I am emphasizing this point to make it clear that we are on our own. I'm saying this to encourage all of us to assume full responsibility for saving our own lives."

Now this is obvious. IMO Women's (& children's) fate - regardless of "race" - has ALWAYS been greatly attributed to the status (financial, societal, etc...) AND the MENTAL STATE (where a man's values and priorities lie) of the man she marries and mates with.

Because of cultural indoctrination, most BW - even high achievers - have been steered towards passive mentally enslaved black males regardless of common interest, values, outlooks on life, etc...

Shared melanin and a shared history is supposed to "make up for" SERIOUS minuses that most non BW would NOT overlook.

It's truly insane.

Black women will continue to get the short end of the stick - and no stick at all - as long as they continue listening to the "communities" NONSENSE.

Black women DON'T have to be on their own. I'm not, and I know other black/biracial women who aren't.

We have loving SUPPORTIVE husbands and healthy loving families and good friends that are there for us.

Now when it comes to anonymous black males on the street, and black males in general as a population worldwide, well...lol For SURE help is not coming. And it NEVER will.

Because the masses of black males are content with the ways things are. Instead of fighting the status quo and "the system", their true desire is to be apart of it.

They alone. Minus black women and black children.

That's why the suffering and disenfranchisement of black women and black children worldwide (which would be an supreme EMBARRASSMENT that would shame non black men) is of NO consequence to the masses of black men.

The predominant motto of your average black male is ME MYSELF AND I. Women and children last. If at all.

If they're black that is.

Again, women's (and children's) livelihood, and success in this sexist male dominated world we live in is still DIRECTLY related to where her man is at.

Socially, financially, culturally, emotionally, intellectually, spiritually, etc...

This may sound bad but IMO most black men are simply not on the same level (and this is by choice) as your average white man (and other non black man), and therefore cannot provide (again by choice) black women what they need to live well.

ALL women - including black women - need to feel safe, secure, loved, cherished and accepted as they are. They need to know that their men will fight to the death to defend them and their children. Which is the most important thing. The next generation.

Chivalry is NOT dead. And there is NO lack of QUALITY men in this GLOBAL village we live in.

Black/biracial women need to simply ELIMINATE ANY and EVERY man - regardless of "race" that doesn't fit the bill.

The first step IMO is for black/biracial women to start thinking of themselves as human beings and WOMEN FIRST and foremost BEFORE the label "black".

What good has come from sistas thinking of themselves as "strong black women"?

I mean really.

Black women lead in every negative statistic known to mankind.

And this is because black women have put the notion of "race" above everything and all else. At the expense of their womanhood and humanity even.

Black women need to CEASE alining themselves with broken enslaved minded males. Followers.

Like Evia often says, why have the puppoet when you can have the puppeteer?

Especially when he's a GOOD, loving, responsible, and dependable husband, provider, and father.

THESE are the things that matter in this world.

These are the qualities that BUILD cultures and societies. The qualities that build generational wealth.

The definition of crazy is doing the same thing over and over, and expecting different results.

Its time for something new.

In closing, I have very sad news. My husband just called me on the phone and told me Jennifer Hudson's poor little nephew's body has been found in an SUV.

Ladies, the choice of a husband who will father your children is the MOST IMPORTANT DECISION YOU WILL EVER MAKE IN YOUR LIFE.

PLEASE CHOOSE WISELY LADIES.

Felicia

blackwomenblowthetrumpet.blogspot.com said...

Hello there Khadija!

People of color WHO THINK that all blacks should denounce their treatment in this country simply because WE have faced injustice and discrimination are clueless about the REQUIREMENT that black women have about reciprocity and vetting our allies.

Are all native Africans who come to this country defined by us as our brothas and sistas? No. They are not.

All who have brown skin are NOT allies of black people in this country.

As for the other non-blacks in this country who are non-whites...
common suffering and similar discrimination woes WILL NOT qualify a person (or group) to be deemed an ally in the struggle. Black women made that mistake too many times before. We have learned from embracing that naivety.

Ummm...at least I hope we have!

Peace, blessings and DUNAMIS!
Lisa

Khadija said...

Welcome, Felicia!

Thanks for your comment. I edited the post because of it. In your comment, you pointed out the logical conclusion that I had originally left out: That Black women need to STOP hitching our fate to Black men. And move on with our lives. Which includes being open to marriage with any quality man. In the case of observant Muslim Black women, this means being open to marriage with any quality Muslim man, regardless of race.

Black women continuing to adhere to this "nothing but a Black man" ideology will continue to be the death of us. And in some cases, of our children.

I was also blessed to have been raised by Black men who are MEN, and NOT slaves. This is why I'm still shocked when presented with examples of cowering Black male slaves. I NEVER witnessed this sort of behavior from the men in my family while growing up. I honestly didn't realize how rare they are until recent years.

Peace, blessings and solidarity.

Anonymous said...

"I was also blessed to have been raised by Black men who are MEN, and NOT slaves. This is why I'm still shocked when presented with examples of cowering Black male slaves. I NEVER witnessed this sort of behavior from the men in my family while growing up. I honestly didn't realize how rare they are until recent years."

I hear you.

When you've been raised amongst normality, pride, and strength, you simply can't accept less.

At least I couldn't.

Felicia

Khadija said...

Welcome, Lisa!

I love your latest post at your blog! {3 z-formation finger snaps in salute}

Back to your point about vetting potential allies, and demanding reciprocity:

I think all of the issues confronting Black women are connected. The common answers are the same:

1-STOP looking at the world through the lens of ASSUMPTIONS. [Assuming that various folks are automatically allies, protectors, enemies, whatever. All without actually scrutinizing them.] Open our eyes and look at the world through the lens of our own interests. Like everybody else (including Black men) does.

2-Screen/vet everybody.

3-Demand reciprocity in all interactions.
__________________

Hello there, Felicia!

Yep. I had NO idea. And I praise God for that.

Peace, blessings and solidarity.

PioneerValleyWoman said...

The sad part is that black women have been conditioned to think of black men as black, but without thinking about who and what they are as "men," presuming, as was mentioned, that race alone is enough.

Race alone does not define a black man's identity, just as race alone does not define a black woman's identity. Gender matters to each, and it is amazing to think that so many black women have acted as though they don't have a clue.

This disadvantages the clueless, because in a patriarchal world, gender matters, and women who don't recognize the importance of gender can be easily preyed upon.

On the other hand, they recognize gender, but only the gender needs of black men, it seems.

But this was the race-based ideology developed by the movement types. Focusing upon the race only didn't matter as much then, because there was a time when black men as a collective saw their fate as linked to black women and children in the face of white supremacy.

It was how they defined their gender. Remember pictures of the old placards: "I am a MAN!"

But we are no longer in that place.

Too many began to see the purposes of the movement, especially in the black power era as focusing exclusively on the needs of the men but unconnected from the needs of women and children.

Too many forgot that as men, their relationship to black women and children is a part of their black male identity.

So many black women see their identity as black women being tied to their relationship to black men, but black men don't feel the same, as others have noted.

Wasn't it Stokely Carmichael, Mr. Black Nationalist himself, who said that the position of women in the movement was to be "prone?"

In other words, women were to service and serve the men.

Too many women drank the Kool-aide that if they remained "prone," servicing and serving their kings, they would be uplifted as "queens."

I guess we are still waiting....

Shaking My Head,

PVW

Khadija said...

Welcome, Pioneer Valley Woman!

You said, "Race alone does not define a black man's identity, just as race alone does not define a black woman's identity. Gender matters to each, and it is amazing to think that so many black women have acted as though they don't have a clue. This disadvantages the clueless because in a patriarchal world, gender matters..."

Ooooh, I like the way you phrased that. That was smooth. I'm always pleased by the dulcet sounds of "diplomacy speak." {smile}

Harsh translation: Hooking up with a castrated punk is a serious problem!

Black women need to stop grading Black men "on a curve," and simply evaluate men as MEN.

Peace, blessings and solidarity.

PioneerValleyWoman said...

There's no mincing words with you, Miz Khadija!

LOL....

I was thinking about it in this sense, recalling when I once taught in an Afro-Am Studies dept., and I'd hear these young chicks all the time....

"The problem with the black community is that black men have been denied/harmed, etc..."

My eyes would begin to cross. I wanted to say, but have you not been harmed; are community interests really about black men only????

It was all about black men as victims (and thus unaccountable, perhaps?) but black women as victims, no such thing, except when they were victimized by whites (exclusively relating to racialized sexual violence), which was seen really as an affront to black men, not black women: "our women have been harmed, etc..."

These young chicks wanted the patriarchy in name, meaning protection for the kings, but did not seem aware that buying into patriarchy means so much more...

What good is a king if, as you put it, he won't/can't defend his kingdom in any meaningful way?

And this is not about the punked out way of those "kings" who swear they are men, but their "manhood" is limited to harming other black men, women and children, ie., through violence, dealing drugs, or having out of wedlock children, whether or not they intend to take care of them.

Which reminds me of another thing. So many men, when a woman they don't really care for gets pregnant, or a woman they do care for, gets pregnant, but they are not ready, blame the woman, "But she said....!"

As if that alone absolves them. It takes two to tango, and if it was not wrapped up, or if an accident really did happen, then she alone is not to blame.

Perhaps they should not have been dipping in the first place! If you can't see yourself dating her seriously with the intention of something long term, keep it in the pants!

However, with this mentality, real men are supposed to "dip," and it does not matter who it is, as long as they can "hit it."

But now that you have been caught, the question is, whatcha gonna do about it?

The answer for too many is, well I don't really like her, I'm not ready, so I'm gone...

It doesn't help, though, as you once said, about black women fishing in polluted waters, and as Rev. Lisa once said, the internal dynamics are skewed.

Promises I Can Keep is a study of inner-city women and their reasons for pursuing out of wedlock pregnancy.

They see themselves as the responsible ones, meaning that the children are theirs, not his. They have no expectations of anything, because the men in their lives have tended to drop the ball, and it was always mom raising kids alone.

Experiencing motherhood idolatry, they just have to become mothers ASAP.

So they replicate the cycles when they are having children by men whom they do not vet, thus they have children by men who can not or will not be husbands and fathers.

Khadija said...

Hello there, Pioneer Valley Woman!

Oh...I can engage in "diplomacy speak" when I want to--LOL!...just not today...just not right now.

My head is spinning.

The situation with the immigrant Muslim's comment felt the same as watching a particularly upsetting episode of "Roots." With the Pakistani/Arab in "Massa's" spot, cracking the whip.

All of the above, with the full knowledge that many of the silent Black men in that blog's audience are quick to get some "bass" in their voices when addressing Black women.

All of the above, with the full knowledge that many of the silent Black men in that blog's audience like to wax poetic about how African-American Muslim women are "incapable" of fulfilling the "traditional" gender role of a wife & mother.

Yet, these same Black "manly men" who are so into tradtional gender roles are silent when some Pakistani/Arab male comes to a Black blog to TELL them that they "betta recognize" that HIS group's interests are more important than theirs!

I still almost can't believe that so many of these Negroes took that off of him.

Then there's the massacre of Jennifer Hudson's family.

This atrocity also reminds me of the situation with so many of these Muslim Black "manly men" because there is a WIDESPREAD acceptance of criminality within the African-American Muslim faith community.

As you already know, in "popular" Black culture, a BW is considered "wrong" if she doesn't want to hook up with a felon. This goes double for Muslim Black women. Although, I find it interesting that BM are NOT expected to hook up with, much less marry, jailbird BW.

Even jailbird BM don't want their true peers: jailbird BW. And this is considered okay among Black folks. Somehow, it is appropriate for a jailbird BM to feel entitled to have a decent, appropriate BW. In particular, African-American Muslims like to pretend that these Muslim BM ex-cons are Malcolm Xs.

They are NOT. They are much more likely to be similar to the jailbird who is suspected of murdering Jennifer Hudson's family. Said jailbird is married to her sister, who reportedly works as a bus driver. Said jailbird apparently stayed at Ms. Hudson's mother's house at some point.

When BW reject dallying with BM felons, and reject helping BM felons in any way, they are condemned for not "helping a po' brother out."

All of the above, and then I made the (grave) mistake of visiting a Black gossip site [which I have done perhaps 5 times in my life].

I know, I know---What did I do that for? Some individual with a male screen name kept focusing on whether or not the person who called in the info about the SUV where J.H.'s nephew's body was found was going to get the $100,000 offered by the family for the child's safe return.

{insert primal scream here}

Peace, blessings and solidarity.

tasha212 said...

Khadijah,

I feel you on alot of what you're saying, especially about staying away from the ex-cons. I just wrote a post about that yesterday. I don't understand the propensity toward this behavior. A proverb in the Bible says that only fools fail notice clues and see what is plain as day to everyone else. No women should bring an ex-con into her house and be surprised when he commits some savage act of violence. Women, please protect your children. I can't say that enough. My aunt's baby daddy is a an ex-con. He is a pitiful waste of air and space. He came out of prison to return to the very lifestyle that sent him to prison in the first place. I pray every day that he is not the type to harm women and children. I pray every day that he is not the type to rape little girls. So far, to my knowledge, my prayers have been anwered.

Khadija said...

Welcome, Tasha!

I'll also keep your relatives in my prayers. One of my cousins hooked up with a jailbird. As long as she kept him around, he brought her nothing but suffering. Of all kinds.

One of the BF IRR bloggers (I can't remember who---maybe it was Sara) called this phenomenon "The Race to the Bottom." Basically, popular Black culture browbeats BW into lowering their standards when it comes to BM. And then lowering them some more. And more. And more.

The flip side of this phenomenon is that when gainfully employed BW hook up with criminals and die as a result, there is hostile scrutiny of why they were involved with thugs. If I remember correctly, this sort of hostile scrutiny of the dead BW's romantic choices followed the Hovey Street Murders.

Then there's the "captive audience" angle of BW fishing in all-Black social settings. We all know what happens in all-Black settings: There are a small number of "eligible" BM juggling the attentions of a much larger number of available BW.

There is a real numerical imbalance that leads to a large pool of BW scrambling for an ever-shrinking pool of available, eligible BM. This leads to desperation. Which leads to further lowering of standards by BW. This particular angle would be solved if more of us would STOP socializing in all-Black settings; and enlarge the pool of potential husbands to include non-Black men.

I'm upset about all of these situations. I'm angry with the BW that bring criminals into their lives; thereby endangering everybody around them (including their children). But I'm also angry with the Black popular culture "beatdown" that demands that BW NOT have any standards when it comes to BM. And the Black popular culture brainwashing that encourages BW to have a "nothing but a BM" mindset (which gravely limits their options).

As Rev. Lisa says in her latest post, BW have to break all the mental chains that are binding us to suffering; and run for our lives!

Peace, blessings and solidarity.

focusedpurpose said...

hi Khadija-

thank you for this post.

i mozied on over to check out the blog that inspired your post and something slapped my face hard. i re-read it and found that i could not leave a comment as it would not tow the party line. here's why... ...as misguided as the bonehead commenter was... in his assertions he managed to do what black folks, men and women often forget to do. he was balanced. he did not fail to include the suffering of arab WOMEN in his boneheaded spiel. in fact, he was the only one that made mention of african american women AT ALL. of course, he did this to support his ridiculously disrespectful point.

as long as folks want to only use black MEN as examples of the struggles/suffering of african americans, i am content to divorce myself from the conversations.

the notion that police brutality, racism, economic hardship/oppression, missed educational opportunities, hate crimes, rampant violence etc. are mentioned only in relation to black MEN as the african american COLLECTIVE is discussed makes me sick. this continues to be the pattern even as our black woman images, esteem and psyches are under attack by ALL. our misguided sense of loyalty is aiding and abetting in our destruction.

we women participate in these conversations without making mention of the issues that severely hamper the quality of our lives and in quite a few instances our very lives. why? notice how others don't ever lose sight of their best interests/issues that are most important to them? others don't miss an opportunity to insert their concerns into EVERY conversation that is being had. ESPECIALLY black men. (i am not saying most, some, a few, etc. on purpose.)

i read that exchange as a conversation between men. the most despised of african americans, african american WOMEN and our vast historical and present concerns were not even mentioned. heck, WE weren't mentioned at ALL except by mister bonehead. despite this nation's consistent assault on black women.

as long as black men are content to be stood on, i am content to allow it. i have taught my son that it is better to be a corpse than a coward. i have taught my son that his role as a man is primarily one of provider and protector---everything else is EXTRA. i have done/continue to do my part to make this mess better. ultimately though, my son must CHOOSE to be a man. it is NOT about anyone LETTING him be a man. should he, heaven forbid, choose to be less than a man, i will NOT be defending, excusing, nor co-signing the disgraceful behavior. how much less will i do this for OTHER people's sons.

at this point, i refuse to be stood on, by anyone. i am choosing my battles and will not waste an ounce of energy where my existence is not even acknowledged much less appreciated.

after reading of the utter contempt commonly held by arabs collectively for black women globally, i am hard pressed at this point to allow myself to get worked up about ANY of their issues here or elsewhere. uuuhhh, what's in it for me? reciprocity closes the door on a lot of energy sucking shenanigans. i'll be keeping it simple in the interest of not being stuck on stupid. i have been stuck on stupid for way too long. vehemently stuck! lol!!!

as we acknowledge that more often than not black men have disconnected from us and our plight---may i suggest we PRACTICE DOING the same? at every given opportunity? NOW! in the interest of reciprocity, self respect, living well, eliminating unnecessary stress, simplicity and the fact that it is LONG overdue?

my comment was cleansing to me. thank you Khadija for the forum.

when i refuse to speak to something it bugs me for a little while. in addition to dealing with a bad case of writer's block, which one cannot readily tell by the length of this comment:-) i am also learning to mitigate this undeniable truth. it bugs me not to defend black men, even knowing IT IS NOT MY JOB and that most won't waste a moment defending black women and girls. not even the women that mother them or their children and the girls that are in fact THEIR little girls.

i am challenging my natural inclination nevertheless and learning to move powerfully through the discomfort. working out hurt at first, too:-) yet, i have come to truly appreciate a good run, hike, or other strenuous exercise now. so i know that functioning according to my divine purpose will stop bothering me and become a piece of cake the more i practice!

and that will conclude my rant:-)

Khadija, thanks for letting me share.

blessings sis,
focusedpurpose

Khadija said...

Welcome, Focused Purpose!

{excited waving}

I've missed you & your voice, Sis! For that reason alone, I'm delighted that you stopped by.

But I'm also happy because there's an "extra special" bonus from your comment: It gives an opportunity to show what principled, reasoned, courteous disagreement and dissent looks like.

I'm not in training to become Joseph Stalin. I never ask anybody to agree with anything that I post here (or say anywhere else). I put it out there, and people can accept or reject. The nice thing about principled disagreement is that it provides an opportunity to explore all of the angles involved in a situation. I welcome that opportunity. I learn from these sorts of exchanges. Sometimes, I learn that I am in error.

The Prophet Muhammad taught that actions are judged by intentions. The point where I start to have a problem with guests is when their behavior demonstrates that they have bad-faith motives. And/or that they are abusing the forum, as well as the good faith and trust of the other guests. Thankfully, this has been a rare occurrence so far.

Now, getting to the "nitty-gritty":

1-Yes, that was a discussion between men. That is the nature of what passes for "Muslim" discourse. I knew that going in. Men's concerns are the currency that most Muslims use. There's no point to be served by me pointing out women's concerns, because these are generally men who explicitly don't care about women. Period.

The possibility of religiously-approved misogyny is what attracts many BM to Islam in the first place. Islam (as practiced) is often the last refuge of wanna-be batterers and wanna-be harem-operators.

2-There is value in taking ANY opportunity to oppose immigrant-domination of Black Muslim thought or discourse. The sectarian and extremist modes of thought that Muslim Blacks have copied from the immigrants have had a DEVASTATING effect on Muslim Black women and children. Muslim Black women & children are safer with the Nation of Islam "cult" than within "orthodox" Black Muslim mosques.

When Muslim Blacks still did our own thinking, we NEVER engaged in the depths of anti-woman & anti-child practices that many of us have now copied from these immigrants. Any effort that undermines the immigrants' control of Black Muslim minds can potentially save Black Muslim women's lives.

As weak & confused as so many "orthodox" Muslim Black men are, they are still holding MANY Muslim Black women & children in their thrall. There are more than a few Muslim BW who became Muslim to please a man. This sets them up for heavy-duty exploitation.

These women & children are often a desperately suffering subculture. The depths of their degradation is usually kept hidden from public view. Anything that helps loosen the grip of immigrant-inspired-thought among the Black Muslim males who control them will improve these BW's & children's lives.

3-The Pakistani/Arab doesn't care about "his" women either. His professed concern about their plight was a Trojan horse maneuver. Immigrant Muslim men use their women's "plight" much the same way Black male leadership uses our suffering: It's only of interest if it can be used as a club to hit White men over the head.

It only "counts" as a problem when it's something that White men are doing to the women. As you know, activists like Rev. "Hot Comb" Sharpton don't care about BW being raped and beaten. He only pretends to care if BW are raped & beaten by White men. At which point he can use BW's suffering as a weapon in his patriarchy contest with White men.

Immigrant Muslim men have the exact same motivations when it comes feigning concern about "their" women's problems. These problems only "count" when they can attributed to White America. The countless things that immigrant Muslim men are doing to immigrant Muslim women always go unmentioned.

I DO understand, and agree with, many of the reasons you gave for NOT jumping into that particular conversation. I felt the same reluctance. However, my beliefs about Point #2 tipped the scales for me in favor of (limited) intervention.

Thank you for raising the level of this conversation with your dissent! Please feel free to come back & continue this dialogue. I look forward to it.

Peace, blessings and solidarity.

PioneerValleyWoman said...

I'm confused about something in the discussion of Islam in the black community today--I read the post too and a few others.

Purely a matter of trying to gain perspective as an outsider to this tradition. Perhaps my questions might be ones which resonate with others.

But first and observation.

I found it striking that Black American Muslims have been told nationalism for their own community is bad, so they don't take a stand, as you explained, but they are encouraged to fulfill the nationalist commitments of other groups: Palestinians, etc.

They are hoodwinked, it seems, into thinking these are struggles affecting all Muslims because of the shared Muslim factor, but the Muslim factor is not enough commonality for these movements, in light of the lack of reciprocity.

Onto the matters which confuse.

Many know, of course, about the NOI and its work among bm felons in prison and out.

So is it a matter of bm who are attracted to Islam--whether or not they are felons in the jails--are now learning Orthodox Islam, but they are superimposing themselves onto the popular understanding of the NOI as heroic?

You might have mentioned this once, that the NOI itself is more orthodox today? I'm thinking here of Farrakhan. Is he part of that growing orthodoxy?

As for being enamored with violence, how did that come about? Thinking about my understandings of Malcom X, in his day, he was speaking about a principled use of violence to protect black families: black men, women and children.

So what happened? Was it a matter of Black American Muslims starting to think of all black criminals as "political prisoners" due to white oppression, or something else?

Was it a matter of the earlier criminal element brought to Islam did not give up their harmful violent tendencies once they got out of prison, so they created an environment in which the violence could be tolerated?

Sister Seeking said...

Spread the word to the rest of our sisters that they need to: (1) STOP socializing in all-Black settings; and (2) STOP limiting themselves to only considering Black men as potential husbands. The sooner more Black women take these two steps, the sooner our lives will drastically improve.

SS: WORD !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


May Allah s.w.t. protect brother Muhammad and his family. : )

To any of the members of Nation out there: BEWARE of these immigrant movements who seek "interfaith" dialogue with you. They want to dominate you to your own injury.

Salaam

Evia said...

Khadija, I confess I'm woefully ignorant about the differences between the NOI Muslims and orthodox Muslims, etc. or their lives or anything about them. I've never had a conversation with any type of Muslim woman, prior to meeting you online. They've always appeared to me to want to keep to themselves. But whenever I've seen AA women wearing the Muslim clothing out in public anywhere, I've always felt GOOD for them that they weren't being subjected to the vileness and desperation that constitutes the lives of many Christian black women.

So, I'd always thought up until I started reading you that those AA sistas who'd become Muslims had "escaped" and were experiencing "Living Well" lives. I mean, why else would they have converted or stay in that life?
I remember the first time I read something you wrote about the true nature of their lives, and I was shocked and had to re-read it because I couldn't believe I had read correctly. LOL!

Anyway, now you're here bursting that bubble. LOL!!

Wow! Bw are not safe or Living Well anywhere, except in individual and apparently isolated situations. Actually, the more I read and observe online and offline, the more it's become certain that for the bulk of AA women, living well is a relatively rare experience. Wow! No wonder why so many black folks cannot believe that I'm happily married to a wm and living well.

And the singlemost reason for many of these bw not living well or living a higher quality life is because of the way they **THINK** (their indoctrination) because their thinking leads them to gravitate towards and stay stuck up under a weak and raggedy black man!! This is why I've blogged so much about the poisonous thinking that pervades AA life. But so many AAs hold onto that destructive thinking with all of their might because it enables them to keep their "mad on" against 'de evil wm.' LOL! This is so profoundly stupid; it's called as my grandmom called it: "cutting off your nose to spite your face."

Anyway, aside from the indoctrination, I'm really at a loss for figuring out why so many AA women THESE DAYS would opt to live these squalid, suffocating, and often dangerous lives that they and their children live, and on so many levels--just to be with a bm. My husband supports me in most important ways, lifts me up, protects me, encourages me, helps me with anything I'm doing, comforts me, spends quality time with me doing a variety of things, talks and laughs with me, is playful with me, tries to make me happy, etc. I can't imagine remaining with a man for more than a minute if he didn't treat me like this. My husband is far from perfect, but so am I.

If any woman chooses to hitch her wagon to a small-minded, weak, insecure, inadequate, mysogynistic, oppressive male who can't meet the challenges of life as a provider and protector in a patriarchial world, she and her children are virtually guaranteed to live a squalid or less-than life in a multitude of ways. This type of man of ANY race or group is usually angry and dangerous to a woman or any weaker person because he constantly compares himself to other men and comes up short.

But instead of figuring out and facing himself and accepting that his inadequacies are his responsibility to fix, these weak, raggedy bm blame bw because bw are a convenient, soft, and most of all FORGIVING target. Bw haven't learned that the more use and abuse they accept from these males and the more they forgive them, the more disdain and contempt they WILL receive from them. That's so solid until you can take it to the bank.

This is human nature 101. People do NOT respect you when you allow them to get over and over on you--not even your children and not even your animals.

Ensayn1 said...

Khadija,
I couldn't read your full post before I went over and commented on the blog you have linked. Like you, I have slowed my roll on talking about a collective Black issue, but to this one I had to respond, as you will see if you venture back over to that blog. Often times we must respond to ignorance to try and thwart the spread of it unchecked. I said before that the Black male (its hard to speak of MEN when speaking of the collective) are being attacked through the Black woman. Black men are complicit in the destruction of Black society by working with the destroyers of Black people world wide by attacking the woman. If we don't stop the attack on Black women we cannot stop the attack on Black people.

Khadija said...

Hello there, Pioneer Valley Woman!

DING! DING! DING! DING! We have a winner here!

Actually, you've zeroed right in on what the problem is with these immigrant-influenced Muslim Blacks:

Their Arab/Pakistani masters have instructed them that "nationalism" is bad. However, it only counts as big, bad "nationalism" when Black people express any concern whatsoever for other Black people.

When the Arab/Pakistani masters instruct their Black servants to support Arab/Pakistani nationalist projects and goals, this is called "supporting the ummah (the faith community of ALL Muslims)."

If it's something that affects the immigrant Muslims or their countries of origin, then this concern is characterized as something that affects ALL Muslims. If it's something that affects Muslim Blacks' communities of origin (i.e. Black residential areas), families of origin, or even ourselves directly, then it's "of NO CONCERN."

This is why racial profiling was officially of NO LEGITIMATE CONCERN to Muslims until immigrant Muslims lost their Honorary White Folks status, and it affected them.

It's the same pattern as the bait & switch that goes on with how Black interests are defined. "Black interests" = Black men's interests only.

I'm favorably impressed with how the simple slogan of "DEMAND RECIPROCITY" quickly exposes what's wrong with any of these lopsided, oppressive interactions/relationships/demands!

How did all of this come to be? Answer: Demographics. I've come to understand that demographics is often what's underlying culture shifts.

In this case, several demographic trends combined to create a "perfect storm" of madness within Black American Muslims.

1-The dying-off of the "old guard" among "orthodox" Black Muslim imams. There was a time when I would guess 98% of the Muslim Black imams were men who had come through the old NOI at some point in their lives before they accepted Sunni Islam.

My retired imam is one such man. The Arabs/Pakistanis could NEVER dominate (or even really influence) such Black men. The sense of ethnic self-respect that such imams absorbed while they had been in the NOI inoculated them against undue immigrant influence. These men have retired or passed away during the last decade.

We now have had 25+ years of Black imams who were NEVER part of the NOI. The current generation of Black imams were molded & "trained up" by Pakistanis & Arabs. Many of these Negroes went to Arab countries to study (often on scholarships offered by the Saudi government). Some of these Negroes actually measure one's allegiance to Islam by the degree of one's allegiance to those who sit in the Saudi thrones!!

I would compare the situation to the rise of crossover Black politicians who NEVER came through any Black-controlled "movement" activities. People like Sen. Obama and others who were never "trained up" under Black-led movements, Black activists, or Black people in general.

Incidentally, I firmly believe that Black folks are going to reap a similar whirlwind from these crossover Black politicians once all the "old heads" like Rev. "Baby Daddy" Jackson & Rev. "Hot Comb" Sharpton are finally gone from the scene.

There are GRAVE problems with these "old heads," but they at least responded to some of our needs. For example, who can you call when some White student hangs a noose on your door (besides your lawyer)? Crossover Black politicians DON'T respond to these sorts of problems!


Anyway, I had no idea of this shift until recent years. I was happy at my mosque. I had been blissfully unaware of this until my imam retired. That's when I discovered that men like him were not considered "mainstream" by those Black Muslims who have been trained by Arabs/Pakistanis.

What is "mainstream" has shifted because of these underlying demographics. My retired imam is considered a "Black Nationalist" (which is considered bad) because he does not slavishly follow or imitate foreigners.

The widespread acceptance of criminality is also the result of demographics: There has simply been too much emphasis (for too many decades) on recruiting BM criminals in prison! BM criminals form a disproportionate number of the BM Muslims in almost all mosques.

The difference is that the NOI has a FIRM STRUCTURE in place to monitor these felons and discipline them for "backsliding" into criminality. There is no such structure in "orthodox" Black mosques. This intersects with the 1st demographic trend. "Old guard" Black imams who came through the NOI were firm disciplinarians when it came to criminality. Jailbird Muslim BM tended to avoid mosques run by "old school" Black imams because these old-school imams don't play that, and WON'T tolerate mess!

The Arabs/Pakistanis never trained their Black servants to put a check on criminals because the spread of criminality among Blacks was never one of their concerns! Really, what does it matter to them? Answer: Nothing at all. Their Black servants would only be allowed to run Black-populated mosques.

And it's NOT like they were going to allow their Black male slaves to marry into their families. [Which is one of the popular complaints among these Negroes. Which is why they have to fly all the way over to Morocco to PURCHASE Arab women. It's amusing to note that Pakistanis in Pakistan won't play that---NO amount of money will convince them to allow Negroes to marry their daughters.

I will note that eventually reports of Negro Muslim male criminality, drug use, down-low behavior, etc. WILL get back to these villages in Morocco. And then this avenue of purchasing non-Black women will be closed too.]

The Min. Farrakhan angle is too lengthy to get deep into here. I'll just say this: There are a LOT of immigrant-controlled "orthodox" Muslim Black imams who can't wait for him to pass away. They have high hopes of taking control over the Minister's followers (and especially, their money).

I will simply urge all NOI members to take heed of Sister Seeking/Miriam's warning: BEWARE of immigrant-dominated "orthodox" Muslims seeking "dialogue" with you!

Pioneer Valley Woman, thank you for your questions. Please feel free to ask more. These are some of the nuances involved in this situation that I didn't want to potentially bore audience members with, unless somebody asked.
_________________________

Welcome, Sister Seeking/Miriam!

Thank you for giving that sincere warning and counsel! I pray that the NOI membership can avoid being caught in the immigrants' snares after the Minister makes his transition. I also keep the safety of Bro. Abdur-Rahman & his family in my prayers. By loudly speaking the truth, he has deeply angered the immigrant-oppressors (including those among them who are inclined towards violence).

Wa Salaam.

Peace, blessings and solidarity.

foreverloyal said...

You know what, Khadija, actually some of the posts on this blog were what inspired the http://foreverloyal.wordpress.com/2008/10/09/how-did-it-come-to-this/ "How did it come to this" post.
If some of our most intelligent, educated, passionate, pro-black sistas (masha'allah) are sounding the death knell, then what do we have left? Are we really that far gone?
And if the answer is yes, then that means serious planning action in acceptance of that.

DeStouet said...

evia,

can you please share with us what khadija said about the true nature of our lives?

DeStouet said...

since I stopped believing in the contract, I've really begun to see just how loop-sided this contract was between AA men & women. sometimes when i read some of the comments from you ladies, i walk away from my computer tired, and angry.

in fact, my husband came to me this weekend and was a bit concerned that I had lost all faith in the AA man. some days i must confess this is exactly how I feel, but i reassured him that it just had to do with reciprocity.

anyway, like evia, i can see why most people in my family believe that i pretend to be filled with joy and have harmony in my home because compared to many of them, I have been touched by the hands of the Lord himself. (which I have)

after reading everyone comments, I have decided that I am going to approach this topic of abandoning all black communities & including non-black men in their dating options from the children's perspective. whenever I talk/discuss this issue with another AA woman, I am going to ask her to think about her children. from my mouth, to her ears, it will always be about her future children & grandchildren. if she has a problem with dating outside of her race, i will ask her to --at least fulfill her obligation to her future by NOT having a child by a DBR black man.

unlike focusedpurpose, i despise it when people fail to see how wonderful & valuable children are. how tender their hearts are, how forgiving they can be. i don't have much respect for adults even though I am one myself. somehow we always seem to miss the "bigger" picture.

the truth is that children have always been the future. we should have never taken our eyes off of them & placed it upon ourselves. i'm going to use this approach whenever I speak with other AA women in hopes of planting a seed.

it's so upsetting to me to know that when the whole universe is ours for the taking, we have had to settle for simply "living well."
and for most of us that means a spouse and children. nothing more. nothing less.

Khadija said...

Welcome, Everyone!

Due to the sensitive nature of this topic, and knowing how these immigrant-oppressor Muslims react when challenged, I'm going to have to reject anonymous comments (at least temporarily). So, please sign in to post comments.
__________________________

Welcome, Evia!

First of all, "living well" is a foreign concept among BW. From what I can tell, most of us don't even understand what you're talking about when you say that phrase. Others think that achieving a "living well" lifestyle is impossible; and therefore believe that you must be lying. Pathetic, but true in my opinion.

Yes, many BW come to Islam hoping for sanctuary from the vile aspects of popular Black culture. Unfortunately, many Muslim BW find that they have jumped out of the frying pan and into the open flame!

In my response to Pioneer Valley Woman, I explained the distinction between "old school" Black imams and the current batch that have been "trained up" by Arabs/Pakistanis.

Black women & children are generally MUCH safer under the leadership of "old school" Black imams and within the NOI. Some BW are actually "living well" under the religious guidance of "old school" Black imams or the NOI. BW & children are more likely to live hellfire-lifestyles while under the guidance of immigrant-influenced Black imams.

It's bait & switch. BW come to Islam seeking the good lives that have seen modelled by "old school" & NOI followers. BW mistakenly assume that these good lives are available within ANY mosque, and under ANY Muslim Black imam.

They are totally unaware of the differences between Muslim congregations, and the different outcomes they lead to. So, instead of a good life, many BW end up getting the hellfire-lifestyle from immigrant-influenced BM Muslims.


That's part of why I'm speaking out loud, and candidly about these matters. To spread awareness about the dangers that exist within the Muslim Black faith community, so BW can steer clear of these dangers. I feel compelled to burst these existing bubbles in order to help save Black lives. NOBODY is talking about the different sorts of lives available to BW with different sorts of Muslim congregations.

And you hit the nail on the head when you stated, "This type of man of ANY race or group is usually angry and dangerous to a woman or any weaker person because he constantly compares himself to other men and comes up short." BINGO!
___________________________

Welcome, Ensayn!

I praise God for the remaining Black MEN among us like yourself. May your numbers increase! Ameen. ("Amen.")
____________________________

Welcome, Forever Loyal!

Yes, we are that far gone! When you see long-term Black Nationalist "holdouts" like me (& I would include Focused Purpose in this category---I don't think she'll mind--LOL!) "giving up the ghost," then you know something has permanently changed.

The old answers have NOT worked. To persist in these old answers will lead to the total destruction of what remains of BW & children. The Dunbar Village Atrocity & its aftermath snapped me out of the ideological trance I had been in. I am now (hopefully) in closer contact with reality, and can plan/act accordingly to promote BW's & children's collective interests.
________________________

Welcome, DeStouet!

The first essay I wrote talking in detail about some of the madness going on among Muslim Black folks was a guest post entitled "Why Black American Muslim Women Follow Muslim Ike Turners" over at Rev. Lisa's house.

Among other things, I mentioned some of the Muslim Blacks that have lost their lives because of polygamy and other immigrant-Muslim-inspired practices. It's important to note that the NOI does NOT play that polygamy mess (last I heard).
______________________

Hello again, Sister Seeking/Miriam!

I saw your comment on the other blog quoting MANA's Mandate. All I can say is: May God protect us all from this mischief. Ameen.

You asked the question what's wrong with the colored boy Imam Zaid Shakir (who wrote this "immigrants will rule" mandate). Answer: Imam Zaid Shakir was "trained up" by Arabs. That's what's wrong with him. If I remember correctly, he went to Syria to study. For years.

Peace, blessings and solidarity.

Khadija said...

Hello there, DeStouet!

Believe me, I understand how tiresome all of this gets to be. But know this:

By simply walking around while LIVING WELL you are influencing BW's lives for the better! Many BW don't believe that Black women like you exist!

Even if you never opened your mouth to say another word, other women can see the contentment reflected in your face, your demeanor, and how you carry yourself.

Be aware that your silent testimony of the real possibility of a better life is making a difference! Keep up the good work!


Peace, blessings and solidarity.

DeStouet said...

when i said we settle for simply "living well" i did not mean it was not a worthwhile goal. it is. i live well.

Evia said...

can you please share with us what khadija said about the true nature of our lives?

Khadija was saying what she's saying here re how the AA muslim women are NOT put on a pedastal (as I'd always thought) and regarded as the most desirable women in the world by their men (must be more than a few) and instead the men are flying off to Morrocco to get those women. Sounds like this has become a practice and I read some comments at A Singular Voice (in Khadija's blogroll) that also revealed a lot about what's going on in terms of this practice.

PioneerValleyWoman said...

Khadija:

Pioneer Valley Woman, thank you for your questions. Please feel free to ask more. These are some of the nuances involved in this situation that I didn't want to potentially bore audience members with, unless somebody asked.

My reply:

You're welcome. I only have a lay person's understanding, but I did learn (in the wake of 9/11) more about the emphasis in Orthodox Islam on the universality of Muslim's shared experiences as providing basis for struggle.

But it is good to learn how that has affected African American Muslims, especially when I recall the Lackawanna situation of various African American Muslims being charged with engaging in terror.

I thought their interest in this could have come from the NOI, but what you are saying sheds new light. They are getting dragged into other people's battles!

It seems to me that there already was this foundation that enabled this new trend (the little I know of it from my understanding of the NOI) indicates that there have been Af-Am Muslims who saw themselves as engaging in struggle as an aspect of their black nationalist sentiment. This enabled them to be taken advantage of: "here is the means of struggling against the evil empire and fight with your brothers."

And unfortunately, as you described, "becoming Muslim for a man" is built upon the romanticization of the NOI, but this tradition is not the currently developing trend.

Very important to know, and thanks for educating us all.

Sister Seeking said...

P&B


@ Evia

Honey, Khadija hasn’t even hit the tip of the iceberg—yet.

Let me tell you what I’ve SEEN and believe to be true:

My job is to assist residents of my county in ascertaining various forms of public assistance.

What I’ve seen is that many BW--including ones who are college educated and came from stable homes—married not only what you call DBR BM but ALSO DBR IMM (immigrant) men. They did the same thing BAM men did, but their outcome was worse because as we all know –child bearing makes you dependant no matter how short term that dependency is. As a result of their dependency they ended up being physically, emotionally, and spiritually abused not only by their husband but through our religious community as a whole. Our religious community has what I call “competing discourses” that have caused many BW to become confused, and make major life decisions that have negatively: even FATALISTICALLY impacted their lives and their offspring.

I have tried for some time now both online and in person to point out that orthodoxy is causing the dysfunction amongst BAM Muslims. I also tried to bring the discussion in context by quoting a BAM Family law judge who is dealing with the aftermath of orthodoxy in her court room: orthodoxy has created such a dysfunctional situation that the courts must intervene in order to:

Reassign the wealth as the women have been systematically taught by their husbands, Imams, and other spiritual leaders to sit home isolated from the world and not to be active in the family finances.

Determine paternity through embarrassing DNA testing of all these women (including young teen girls) who were manipulated into plural marriages.

Terminate parental rights in cases where the mother has chosen an abuser over her children or in cases where the non-Muslim family members who are mentally stable and well off are trying to terminate the Muslim family member’s parental rights due to the children living in abject poverty.

This is not from me; this is from the judge I was corresponding with.

Of course the response from other BAM’s is that classical Islamic law gives us rights—this is true to a point:

We are not in an Islamic land therefore there is no system or government to enforce our rights. Furthermore, there have been recent cases in the MD, DC, VA areas where the courts have made it clear: WE UPHOLD NO LAW OTHER THAN OUR OWN.

The legal code is written(translated) in such a manner where men’s rights cancel out our rights, and we are right back where we started: SLAVERY.

Most of these men are TOO POOR to afford “hired help” promoted in some of the classical legal codes.

And where my heart hurts for us is OUR CHILDREN. Evia, I have been blabbing my big behind about this on the Muslim blogsphere since the beginning. Nobody is discussing the impact all this madness has on our children.

To conclude this issue, just to show how “nice” Khadija has been on this subject. Many BW that married DBR IMM men have lost children to preventable diseases by living abroad with out the financial resources, and family support to do so. BAM children have died from malaria, TB, and other diseases you and I are immunized for.

As a matter of fact, during Ramadan a BAM DOCTOR of all people called me asking for donations to help a BAM sister married to a DBRM IMM man living over in East Africa…

This is why I shouted it out on AMR’s blog stop letting people dominate you to your injury.

@ Destouet

Amen to every word you said.
I feel the same exact way.
Nobody is watching out for our children.
We can not wait around for folks to do so either.

PB

Sister Seeking said...

P.S.

Destouet

I've been feeling angry and tired too...

: )

I'm ready to put my money where my mouth is man...

Khadija said...

Hello there, Pioneer Valley Woman!

I must say that I'm really starting to appreciate how wise Elijah Muhammad was. About many things. Most of all, about the true mentality of our people. And about what has to happen to secure a long-term future for our people. So many other Black leaders have been proven totally wrong in their approaches, over the long run.

From my perspective, the "let's fight the evil empire" mindset did NOT come from the NOI. Not at all. They've always talked tough, but Elijah Muhammad trained them to "carry not so much as a pen-knife." Despite their tough talk, the NOI has always been STRICTLY non-violent and respectful of this country's laws in their conduct. This policy caused conflict between the NOI & groups like the Panthers. Malcolm X was also disappointed by this policy.

This was very wise of Elijah Muhammad. This practice kept, and continues to keep, NOI members out of prison. This practice also denies the FBI, Homeland Security, etc. any substantive pretext for state-sponsored assassinations, like they did with Fred Hampton (and other Panthers).

The only minor exceptions were the NOI's legal battles, including incarceration, around opening their own schools and asserting conscientious objector status during wars.

Even these legal struggles reflect the NOI's preoccupation with building institutions & infrastructure, as opposed to fighting anything. Putting the members' focus on building independent institutions was another shrewd move by Elijah Muhammad.

No, no. In my opinion, whatever "let's go fight jihad" sentiment that exists among AA Muslims came purely from immigrant-influence. You can also tell the immigrant influence from what these Negro fools envision as "real" jihad: fighting in the immigrants' native countries; NEVER picking up a gun to fight the drug dealers & predators in their OWN suffering neighborhoods!

These Negro slaves aren't being "dragged into other people's battles." They're ignoring their own people's plight to jump into other people's battles. Over the years, I've been disgusted to read accounts of Negro jihadists that chose to give their lives fighting in places like Chechnya and Kashmir while their OWN people live under the tyranny of violent & depraved Black criminals.

By contrast, the few physical encounters that the NOI has had over the decades have been in the course of securing Black areas from the depredations of violent Black criminals.

Peace, blessings and solidarity.

DeStouet said...

evia,

thank you for breaking that down for me.

@ sister seeking,

you're amazing! i purchased the book, You Are Your Child's First Teacher, by Rahima Baldwin. I am really enjoying it.

I have a question for you. This book only applies to my son. Are there any books for children between the ages of 6-13 that I can use for my two oldest girls?

I am beginning to see how important discipline & rhythm is in my home (I've hated rules & discipline because I grew up in places where there were soooo many)but I'd like to fine tune some things with my two older girls while I can. Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance,

Latasha

Sister Seeking said...

P&B

@ Latasha

E-mail me, and when I get home I can send you my book list.

foreverloyal said...

"Stranger marriages" have been a huge disaster.

Islam is universal but every cultural practice is not. It is one thing for my Syrian friends parents to have met and married in a few weeks, after all, in that case a man married his best friend's sister. He had a depth of knowledge about the family's values, dynamics and how his future wife was raised.

It's another thing entirely for a convert to marry another convert after two weeks, after nothing more than a few phonecalls and (maybe) a friend of a friends assurances as to their character.

blackwomenblowthetrumpet.blogspot.com said...

@ Ensayn1

I just really thank you, Victor, for the words you have spoken:
If we don't stop the attack on Black women we cannot stop the attack on Black people.

Too many black men have not arrived at this place of reckoning!

Continue to blow the trumpet!

Peace, blessings and DUNAMIS!
Lisa

____________________________

@ SisterSeeking

I am happy to see many black women bloggers writing to black women about the IMPERATIVE of breaking the shackles of xenophobia.

We have to do more than just tell black women to stop socializing in all-black circles...we have to do more than just tell them to expand their horizons culturally...we have to EXPLAIN HOW to prepare for this new life...and we have to EXPLAIN WHY it is a matter of their own self-preservation.

Khadija wrote about true fellowship and many commenters STILL did not understand the mandate. They still posted comments that reflected a mindset of "This is a good conversation but frankly, I'd rather stay the way I am...completely closed off to the possibilities of fostering new avenues in my life."

Yes...intelligent black women say this. I am not bashing sistas who feel this way, but I am pointing out that we have MORE work to do in helping our sistas break the chains...recognizing of course...that some will CHOOSE chains over liberation by misidentifying their chains as "freedom".

What seems obvious to me or you may not be as crystal clear to all. The conditioning of many black women has produced very, very heavy chains on their minds and "new thought" is not grasped as quickly or as easily as we may hope it will be.

Peace, blessings and DUNAMIS!
Lisa

_________________________________

@ Khadija

Thanks soooo much for all of the ways you have elevated the dialogue about our liberation with your blog!

I am grateful that we are comrades.

Peace, blessings and DUNAMIS!
Lisa

DeStouet said...

Lisa,

You pointed something out about the friendship issue that was very upsetting for me. In fact, I was going to say something about it but I decided to wait.

I'm glad I did. You said it much better than I could have at the time.

Khadija said...

Hello there, Forever Loyal!

Regarding "stranger marriages" in Middle Eastern societies:

In addition to the man you mentioned knowing quite a bit about how his future wife was raised, it's important to note the built-in safeguards for his future wife.

Women in these societies (the ones who are "reputable" enough to be able to marry) come from close-knit, often TRIBAL families who will take physical revenge on a man who abuses them in a way that is not culturally approved.

I vaguely remember reading a Muslim BM commenting about this "drawback" to purchasing a Moroccan wife: You might not be able to treat them any kind of way (like an AA woman) because they are likely to have male relatives who will take revenge.

AA women generally DON'T have a family safety net to look out for their interests. We've talked about this during Part 1 of the True Fellowship series.
_______________________________

Hello there, Sister Seeking/Miriam!

3 z-formation finger snaps in salute to your recent response to Hamza over at the other blog!

You mentioned BAM children dying unnecessarily from malaria & TB...{shaking my head in disgust & sorrow}
________________________________

Welcome, Comrade Lisa! {gales of deeply amused laughter}

Thank you so much for your kind words. Thank you even more for the example that you're setting with your blog. You, Focused Purpose, Evia, Pioneer Valley Woman, and others are among the activist-bloggers that I'm imitating.

Yep. There's a LOT of internal work that needs to be done. And I do plan to return to my regularly scheduled introspection posts. {chuckling}

I felt that it was important to "out" these Muslim BM servants of Arab/Pakistani men, as well as their cowardice. Many of these men really need new names.

"Abdul" means "servant of." Many Muslim men have compound names that consist of "Abdul" + A Divine Attribute. For example, the other blog host's name "Abdur-Rahman" means "Servant of the Most Merciful."

Instead of calling themselves "Abdul-[Divine Attribute]," these BM Muslim slaves need to be renamed "Abdul-Arab" & "Abdul-Pakistani."

Peace, blessings and solidarity.

Ensayn1 said...

Two things Khadija, first Abdul-Kareem chose not to respond to my comment and decided to respond to what he deems emotional responses, so it appears that is what he prefers to deal with though he poses as if he deals only with facts. Second, I agree with you. I used to be opposed to Elijah Muhammad's teaching or should I say I was not head over heals about them, but as I later looked back I find he was a very wise man. For example I read his book How To Eat To Live. I later have read books by medical professionals in recent years and almost everything he said on that subject corrolated to their medical advice when it came eating habits. Dr. Richard King is one of the physicians and researchers I read that backed the information Minister Muhammad gave to us.

focusedpurpose said...

hi all-

Khadija i see your points and respect them. your position makes perfect sense to me now that i have clarity. i stand in agreement with you. our ways are different, and this is NOT a bad thing. i am not Muslim and am ignorant of much affecting the women and children of the Muslim community. you are right, much is hidden. wife beaters and womanizers, i know for sure are hidden from the mind when one thinks of the nation of islam. i could, if i were so inclined name FAMOUS members that fit the bill. i am NOT so inclined to name them as it would profit no one. i am thankful that you are blogging and teaching. i learn a lot from you and am blessed by having met you.

i will say that there is always a gain, in my view, to pointing out the concerns for women. the fact that others may not care should not deter us. hitory is littered with examples of freedom warriors making a stand and speaking out against injustice at every given opportunity without regard for who cared.

yes, i, too, recognize that there is, at times, faux concern for women of other groups. i resisted the urge to vomit when scantily clad american women decided that traditional dress for muslim women was "oppressive". what provokes my ire is the collective refusal of blacks to even mount a pretense of concern for black women in most instances. while quite a few black women go along because they don't want to appear anything other than well behaved and to curry favor with men. well behaved women do not make history.

i must respond to a comment. i cannot remember who made the comment and am pressed for time otherwise i would scroll and find out for sure:-)

someone said:

"unlike focusedpurpose, i despise it when people fail to see how wonderful & valuable children are. how tender their hearts are, how forgiving they can be..."

i say:

i am not sure from where those sentiments come. anyone that has followed my blog would have to notice that my focus and purpose for writing is to speak into the listening of our nation's teachers---women--- and future teachers---girls. i have at times addressed those situations when future providers/protectors are being sacrificed as well, for great example, the dunbar village atrocity. there was a boy just a little younger than my son that sustained great damage while the super predators were announced as the victims and worthy of protection. i stand against this at every turn without apology.

please don't confuse my refusal to make excuses and accept mediocrity as disdain for children. i have said time and again, our children are our promise of/for the future. when we destroy the teachers, we destroy our promise, and ultimately our future. it is all related. it is written that the friends of fools shall suffer. how much more the women and children? because i care, i speak out, make no mistakes. please.

Ensayn- I LOVE YOU! thanks for getting it. when i encounter "brothers" that bob their heads to the degradation of black women with a banging beat; it is my practice to turn their attention to the fact that dissing the women is a diss to the men as well. in fact, i have asked and received bewildered expressions in return, if they understand that disrespecting black women is tantamount to engaging in a verbal altercation that culminates with "your momma"? it is the same thing and quite a few are missing this point.

yes, Khadija, i am a reluctantly reformed hold out black nationalist. i grew up for a period in the nation of islam. i would sit and listen to the great men and women teach and speak. i dreamed of marrying one of the well groomed, clean eating, white eyed (i have an aversion to yellow whites of eyes:-(, disciplined, fruit of islam. as i grew older, i was knocked awake from these dreams by the sexism that threatened to suffocate the life out of me.

my dream of black men and women standing together, coming up together---turned into a nightmare before my very eyes. snapping out of it became the only way to survive and ultimately live abundantly. i love Evia's "live well". it resonates with me the same as living abundantly.

blessings to all,
focusedpurpose

DeStouet said...

focused purpose,

i completely worded that wrong! didn't even see my error until you pointed that out.

please forgive me.

Latasha

Khadija said...

Hello there, Ensayn!

Abdul-Kareem's careful avoidance of dealing with your comment illustrates something that the Muslim-named colored eunuchs have forgotten (or never knew): the power of a REAL MAN speaking the truth with firmness in his voice.

It's really quite simple. I've seen this demonstrated many times over by the REAL MEN that I've been blessed to have in my life. A REAL MAN firmly speaking the truth doesn't have to raise his voice, get physical, etc.

There is inherent POWER in righteous masculinity. Human roaches know to scatter in the face of this power.

The eunuchs just don't get it. And it's distressing to see that some of those few men who spoke (NOT the blog host, Abdur-Rahman, but some of the others) had such timid, mousy voices. There was an almost apologetic tone used while responding to being insulted.

The eunuchs have allowed immigrant Muslims to cast themselves in the role of paternalistic adults who must guide the confused, childish "darkies."

I see that you noticed this vibe to Abdul-Kareem's statements, too. The immigrant wants to portray himself as the only rational (i.e. adult) voice in the room. Those of us who opposed him are "emotional."

Note that this "emotional" slur is a veiled way of "feminizing" the BM who objected to his statement. [Which in this context, is intended as a put-down.] There's a very short jump from "emotional" to "hysterical." Which is how women are characterized by sexist men.

If you return, you'll see that "wanna be Massa" Abdul-Kareem talks about how the immigrants want to guide & help us. And how "ungrateful" some of us (particularly the blog host, Abdur-Rahman) are for their kind, patient efforts toward us.

On top of this, there is the spectacle of this Negro Imam, Mr. Zaid Shakir writing a mandate stating that we must recognize that the immigrant-descended portion of the Muslim-American population will overtake the AA percentage.

SO WHAT?!! NOBODY ELSE ever concedes power, dominance, or anything else. Furthermore, hasn't the Jewish community, the Afrikaners in South Africa, and others demonstrated that organization trumps sheer numbers.

Most importantly, the Scripture that Mr. Zaid Shakir believes in teaches that small numbers of righteous believers can prevail over multitudes.

Keep in mind that the organization that Imam Zaid Shakir wrote this mandate for (MANA) was supposedly formed to address the issues confronting AA Muslims!!! And this is what he's preaching---AA Muslims must recognize that the immigrants will overtake us in numbers here in America?!!! Who's paying him?

I truly detested Elijah Muhammad for many years. I felt that he was a corrupt, petty, little man who was envious of Malcolm X. I still believe that he was these 3 things (along with some additional negative traits). However, time has proven that his methods were wise & correct.
_____________________

Hello there, Focused Purpose!

And I also stand in solidarity with you! We don't have to be in each other's hip pockets to cooperate with each other, and be in solidarity. You don't have to do what I'm doing, and vice versa. Everybody has their own contribution to make.

Yes...Over the years, I've heard rumblings about some NOI personalities. However, from what I'm hearing, the evil within the Sunni Black Muslim community is a thousand times worse! In both degree AND prevalence. I've been truly shocked over the past few years.

Peace, blessings and solidarity.

PioneerValleyWoman said...

Ahem,

Smile.

Pioneer Valley Woman steps up to the mike, or brings out her bullhorn:

Shecodes, the lioness is back from her blogging hiatus!

For those of you who don't know her, she is a powerful voice for black women's empowerment:

http://www.blackwomenvote.blogspot.com/

foreverloyal said...

ooooh Shecodes is back. I am so there.

tasha212 said...

Khadijah-

Just an update on my cousin. She is still in the hospital. The rapist had actually just done time FOR MOLESTATION. CAN U BELIEVE THAT? When I go home this weekend, my mom and I will probably go and see her. I am devestated. I know that she will not ever be the same.

Again, we must protect our children.

Peace and solidarity,

Tasha

DeStouet said...

tasha,

there are no words to express how i feel that little girl. she deserves so much more.

Khadija said...

Tasha,

Oh... my... God. I will keep you & your family in my prayers.

Peace, blessings and solidarity.

foreverloyal said...

Tasha I am so sorry about your cousin.

tasha212 said...

Everyone,

Thanks for your sincere concern and well wishes for my little cousin. Thank God they got him and put him in jail.

Peace and solidarity,

Tasha

Khadija said...

Tasha,

This (the beast's arrest) is only the first step to "good riddance to bad trash." I would suggest that your relatives talk the the local District Attorney's Office and local victim's advocate program about the following matters:

1-The family's desire to be kept updated about the status of the court proceedings involving the beast.

2-Assuming that the beast is ultimately convicted for this current offense, the family's desire to be kept informed about the possibility of the beast receiving early parole; early release for "day-for-day-good time;" etc. (Or any other such mess.)

The family's desire to be informed of any opportunities for the family to come & speak in opposition to the beast being paroled, etc.

3-Since the beast has done this before, the family's desire for the jurisdiction to pursue having the beast civilly committed AFTER he serves his prison sentence. Many states have laws that provide for the civil commitment of individuals found to be "Sexually Violent Predators." You can look up some of the various states' requirements for this at the following site:

http://www.ndaa.org/pdf/sexually_violent_predator_
statutes.pdf

Please know that you, your cousin, and your family remain in my prayers.

Peace, blessings and solidarity.

focusedpurpose said...

Latasha-

don't worry sis. no harm no foul.

Tasha, my heart hurts for your cousin and your family. I hope this predator reaps his karma in multiples of ten while he is incarcerated.

Khadija, thanks again for yet another great post and comments.

blessings all,
focusedpurpose