This essay is contained in my new book. I'm delighted to announce that The Sojourner's Passport site has launched! You can visit it at http://www.sojournerspassport.com/.
Everyone, I can't thank you enough for your ongoing encouragement and support; I truly appreciate it. Your support is what made this possible. And here's a special shout-out to my web designers at Educo Web Design. They're nice people to deal with, and they do outstanding work!
Peace and blessings,
Khadija Nassif
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Hello to All,
Part of the process of black women developing and maintaining bonds with each other is forgiveness. We all can recall being hurt by another black women at some point in our lives. As a result we put up barriers and label women as untrustworthy and petty. I have heard many times sisters state how they have mostly male friends because of how jealous and petty women can be.
My first real experience of the unhealthy dynamic that can exist among women was high school. I attended an all girls high school in NYC where young women chopped each other down on a daily basis. Gossip, cliques, verbal attacks, physical threats and hateful glances were the norm. I am sure that a lot of you can relate to what I am talking about. As a grown women I can recognize that we were all young girls dealing with budding womanhood in different ways.
Some of us grow out of those insecure girls we were and into women who are wiling to do the work to become better women. Unfortunately we still have to be cautious of toxic women who thrive on drama and disfunction.
I would like to share this excerpt from Sacred Woman by Queen Afua
"We got scared of each other because of competition for men and scarce survival resources. As a result we tried to hurt each other and keep each other down."
"But now we're going to begin to open up and look at each other and hug each other, and know that it's going to be okay. And when we do our inner work, life reflects who we are now. When we're out in a world, what we see is our own reflection."
I have posted some poetry on my blog by a sister poet who you should check out. Just click on my user name to visit the blog.
Much Encouragement and Support!
Ouch...(You know the saying, "If you can't say 'Amen,' then say 'ouch.")
I must confess that I am one of those people who is either too busy or too ill to make time. The illness maybe is excusable, but the being too busy - no excuses.
I have vowed to start at home. The Husband and I never sit to eat dinner together at home. We eat out all the time. However, that changed while I was fasting. Most of the time I didn't want to go to a restaurant to just sit there while everyone was talking and eating. I wanted some quiet time. Anyway, at least once a week The Husband and I will eat at the dining table (used only twice since I bought it 3 years ago; both times for a small dinner party).
I have two friends, older women, who I will make time for - to have tea or lunch with at least once a month.
This was a wake up call to do better.
Welcome, Nu Girl!
I'll have to agree to disagree with you. Here's why: Among Black folks, "forgiveness" has become a code word/slogan that translates into zero accountability for one's predatory actions.
I think there's an important distinction that should be made between this type of amorphous "forgiveness" for unrepentant adult predator-chicks, and Black women being willing to risk reaching out to each other.
There are many Black women who deliberately do things that destroy fellowship:
1-There are many Black women who are looking to hook up with another woman's man. It's dangerous to try to fellowship with this type of Black woman.
2-There are many Black women looking to take whatever they can from those who reach out to them. Too many Black folks have a "tradition" of seeing kindness as weakness; and kindness as an invitation to exploit the kind person. It's dangerous to try to fellowship with this type of Black woman.
3-About high school: There's a critical distinction that should be made between thoughtless girls, selfish girls, mean girls, and predator-chicks who actually attacked and MAIMED other girls.
I remember the predator-chicks who were looking to put scars on attractive girls' faces. Those heifers needed to be in prison. For real. Thankfully, their numbers were relatively small when I was in high school.
However, their numbers have exploded since then. Also, these predator-chicks have gotten a thousand times more violent and vicious in the 26 years it's been for me since high school.
I believe that ALL predators should be held accountable for their actions. No exceptions, including no exceptions for predatory Black women.
_____________________________
Welcome, Hagar's Daughter!
I firmly believe that, truth be told, all of us currently come up short. I know that I have a few behavior patterns that I need to tighten up! LOL!
Peace, blessings and solidarity.
Khadijah,
Yes, friendhip and fellowship amongst black women is a difficult thing indeed. I am one who has few friends, mainly because I don't trust people that much outside of my family, and even some of them I have to think twice about. My experience with frienships has been kinda rocky. When I was in the 8th grade, I was best friends with the new girl. She was my friend until she found someone else who was more popular than me to befriend. I was her friend when everyone else laughed at and teased her and in the midnight hour, she turned on me. Her betrayal cut me like a knife. I hated her for the longest time. After that, it was a long time before I let anyone get that close to me. In my senior year in college, I pledged Delta and became best friends with one of my line sisters. As before, I put more into the friendship than she did. Today, we are no longer best friends. We never had a disagreement; I guess we just grew apart. In hindsight she was a pariah who used my kindness and frienship until she could find something "better". She's one of those females who is your best friend until she finds a man. She's one of those females who was never willing to inconvenience herself in even the slightest way for the sake of friendship. She's one of those females who doesn't understand or practice reciprocity and during the time that we were close friends, neither did I. I think this lack of understanding of that "give and take" that is necessary for balance in life and relationships lies at the root of many problems that black people have. I talk alot on my blog about the importance of reciprocity in male-female relationships, but it is also important in frienship.
I think another reason why it's so difficult for black women to build true and everlasting friendships with eachother is because we don't think that friendship and sisterhood is important. Beyond fake calls for "unity" and sisterhood, does the average black woman really want to invest time and effort into building true fellowship with other black women? Unfortunately, I think the answer is no. If you don't think that friendship is that important then you will be less likely to invest that much time and effort in it. Most women are too obsessed with men and their wants and needs to tend to their own needs and the needs of other "sister-friends".
I think friendship and sisterhood amongst black women are so very valuable and essential . But I'm afraid that most women don't understand the meaning of true frienship. It is hard for me to let my guard down and let someone into my inner circle. But I cherish and nurture the few true friendships that I have.
Peace and solidarity,
Tasha
Welcome, Tasha!
Yes, I've also had my share of negative experiences with opportunists (undercover user-types who act friendly until something "better" comes along).
It's painful because they are often harder to screen out than the obvious user-types.
Please know that when I write blog posts, I'm not addressing the "the average Black woman." I don't care what the "average BW" wants or thinks. I don't bother to talk to "average Black women." The "average BW" is Damaged Beyond (Reasonable Hope of) Repair due to her idolatry of men. The "average BW" is a user or pack mule who won't/can't practice reciprocity.
The "average BW" is not worth my time or energy. They can (and most likely will) die in the wilderness.
I'm only addressing good, worthy, and excellent Black women. Too many good, worthy, and excellent Black women are being "taken out" as collateral damage. Too many of us are separated from each other and TOTALLY surrounded by users/pack mules.
This lack of connection to other good & worthy BW makes each disconnected, worthy BW so much more vulnerable to outside stressors. This lack of connection to each other makes the foundation of our lives brittle.
I know that it's very HARD. I know that there are legions of yucky women one has to carefully sift through. However, I believe the benefit of finding each other is worth it. Everyone has to decide for themselves if the potential benefit is worth the risk/effort.
All I can say is that things tend to work out better when people focus their thoughts & energies on what they want; as opposed to focusing on what they don't want.
Peace, blessings and solidarity.
Hello Again,
When I talk of forgiveness, I do not mean the forgiveness of turn the other cheek and lord please forgive them for they know not what they do brand of forgiveness. This concept of forgiveness without accountability stems from a slave mentality. I have come to redefine forgiveness as comprehending the conditions that led to the negative behavior, learning from it and not allowing the perpetrator to stunt my growth. Coming up on the South Bronx, I both witnessed and was the victim of vicious behavior perpetrated by other black females. Girls being jumped, cut in the face with rusty razors that had been soaked in a solution of lemon juice and garlic. This was more painful, prevented the wound from healing completely and increased the likelihood of infection. I am well aware of the practices of predatory black women. These black women are constantly looking for an angle and sizing other women up. Angry, hateful, bitter, ignorant and ready to resort to violence and drama at the drop of a dime. These predatory black women aren't just poor, urban black women, they come from all walks of life and have an arsenal of psychological and sometimes physical weapons to hurt other black women. I comprehend the roots of the behavior, but I in no way excuse these women's actions. I once allowed my experiences with these predatory females to color my view of black women. I put a barrier between myself and other black women. Today, I still have barriers, but I know how to read other women and I know who I can let through the gate.
Excuse any typos in this post as well as the previous. I was responding while passionate.
I feel so revitalized participating in this discussion. Thank You!
Hello there, Nu Girl!
Thanks for clarifying what you mean by "forgiveness." I'm irritated that so many words & phrases have been seized, co-opted, and twisted around to support evil.
For example, it annoys me that right-wing, often-racist lunatics have seized for themselves the word "patriotism."
Back to what you described:
"...rusty razors..." {My reaction: !!!???!!!}
"...soaked in a solution of lemon juice and garlic..." {My reaction: steam coming out of my ears}
"...[to] prevent[]..the wound from healing completely and increase[]..the likelihood of infection." {Blind rage.}
These sorts of atrocities are the type of things that inspire daydreams of "Death Wish"-style vigilante action.
I wonder what the appropriate penalty for this is under sharia (Islamic law). Hopefully something physical, like flogging. [Although I must admit that I would find it deeply satisfying to have creatures that engage in that sort of behavior that executed.] Western law is MUCH too lenient in its punishments for heinous, deliberately disfiguring attacks like this.
I praise God that you were able to come through being in proximity to such beasts with your heart, mind, and soul intact.
Peace, blessings and solidarity.
...Hopefully flogging IN ADDITION to years in prison...
Peace and blessings.
...Still seething about the level of premeditation & viciousness involved in these atrocities...
What these types of predator-chicks really need is a comprehensive 3-step program:
1-Counseling by Smith & Wesson.
2-Outpatient therapy at A.R. Leak & Sons Funeral Home.
3-Inpatient therapy at Oakwood Cemetery.
Peace, blessings and solidarity.
lol! lol! lol!
Khadija, you are so crazy!
lol!
: )
SS/Miriam
Welcome, Sister Seeking/Miriam!
Well...in addition to the level of premeditation & viciousness involved in the sort of heinous batteries that Nu Girl described, there are SO many other outrageous angles:
1-The level of fear & terror that these beasts impose on the normal girls around them;
2-The sheer numbers of normal Black girls that had and/or have to live under that level of fear for a matter of years (throughout high school & possibly beyond) because of these beasts.
I. Can't. Imagine. Living. Like. That.
3-The fact that the so-called Black community, as a whole, apparently accepts this state of affairs.
4-Apparently, we collectively accept it because nobody's talking about this. Over the years I recall hearing (in passing) about these predator-chicks in New York looking to slash other girls.
I DON'T recall ever hearing any details about the level of plotting and the use of caustic preparations on the straight razors (or whatever the h*** they use). The silence about all of this makes it seem like just another "shrimp on the barbee."
Meanwhile, we've had literally decades of "save the endangered Black male" pep talks, rallies, propaganda, indoctrination, etc.
{!!!???!!!}
Peace, blessings and solidarity.
I too was one of the black women/girls who was harassed and hazed all through school. Over the years I've become more and more of a loner. I realize that it's not ideal, but interacting with others is so stressful to me that I really prefer my solitude.
I've recently moved and left behind the one friend I've cultivated over the years. We keep in touch via phone and e-mail, but it's not the same. I have lots of online friends and that's very comfortable for me. I doubt that I will ever make any more friends in the real world.
nu girl,
i never ran with a crew of young women like that but one of my younger sister's did. well, one day she got into a fight with another group of girls and everyone (my sister included)started pulling out blades from their mouths.
Well, by the time the fight was about to begin this older black man & his wife came running across the street screaming, "No, not today!"
Somehow, his wife got over to where I was standing and just kept demanding for me and my sister to walk across the street with her. Eventually she grabbed my hand and in doing so made my sister follow us.
It was about 6 of us there to fight the other group of girls and we all managed to squeeze into the backseat of this couple's car and they dropped each one of us off at our house.
Reading your story yesterday made me realize how lucky we all were that day. Each one of us.
Hey Khadija!
I really love this discussion because it is so important.
Thank you for bringing out these raw issues.
Hey there Tasha!
You said:
I think another reason why it's so difficult for black women to build true and everlasting friendships with eachother is because we don't think that friendship and sisterhood is important. Beyond fake calls for "unity" and sisterhood, does the average black woman really want to invest time and effort into building true fellowship with other black women? Unfortunately, I think the answer is no.
AMEN.
We have to be honest about that.
So many "say" they want real friendships but they don't want to risk ANYTHING to have them.
I mentioned at my blog that there are black women online who will disucss their academic pedigree and won't even mention their first name online!
I also want to ask all of us to think about how often we DID NOT call the police when witnessing predator behavior...by men or by women or by teens.
Khadija mentioned in a post a week or so ago that there were kids who would actually try to push others OFF of the ledge when trains would be approaching. This is attempted MURDER not a teenage prank.
And I must ask...
Did anyone notify the police of these ATTEMPTED MURDERS? What was the police response? What was the community involvement to force police action?
Black women complain about how many times they are verbally assaulted by black men with sexually aggressive comments when they walk down the street.
I ask:
How many times have you stopped right there, pulled out a cell phone camera to record the predator, or called 911 to report menacing behavior and DEMANDED a police report?
Don't complain that the behavior has escalated from rude sexually menacing comments to these men actually groping someone's butt in passing. We have OUR OWN accountability to accept for tolerating this behavior by ignoring it. Ignoring it condones it - and teaches the black girls who are watching us to IGNORE IT (and condone it).
Black women surely came out in droves to support the Jena 6 who were fighting!! Do we see those droves when black girls are being bullied and threatened with razors and with attempted murder by other teens? No we don't. And why is that?
This brings me to the issue of true fellowship... black women who claim they can't trust other black women because of how they were treated in the past need to understand this fact of life:
People will treat you how you let them.
I know many black women who have been used and abused because of their OWN failure to examine character properly and because of their own failure to set correct emotional boundaries. I can't even tell you how many women I have met who are in their 30s and even 40s who do not even KNOW how to set emotional boundaries or relationship boundaries. They were never taught that boundaries were ESSENTIAL.
Peace, blessings and DUNAMIS!
Lisa
Welcome, Evia!
Nu Girl's testimony has solidified my commitment to doing more research about the oasis concept. I think I'll do an executive summary of the ideas I'm reading about in several books about intentional communities. With citations to the books, so interested folks can follow up on the detailed research.
If possible (and I figure out how, I'm not a tech person), I'll put the summary and lists of resources up on the blog in the form of a downloadable PDF document.
You're right. No energy needs to be spent on "conversion" efforts at this point. Like-minded BW in any particular locale could run with these ideas and tweak them to suit their own needs. We're at a point where folks have to be willing to save their own lives.
Also, the more I reflect on this, the better small, informal oases sound. Here's why: An informal oasis formed by smaller numbers of like-minded BW would attract less negative attention from the haters/saboteurs.
This situation is similar to plantation/concentration camp/POW camp escapes. The more people trying to escape in large groups, the more likely they are to get caught. The more people involved in planning an escape, the more likely it is that there will be a saboteur/traitor among the ranks.
Those BW who don't have the resources to make solo escapes (or haven't hooked up with a loving, lovable husband) are going to have to band together in small groups and pool their resources to escape. Cohousing strategies could help with this.
______________________
Welcome, Roslyn!
Everybody has to figure out what works best for them & their circumstances.
_______________________
Welcome, DeStouet!
May God bless those brave Good Samaritans who personally intervened. I wouldn't have done all that. I would have just called the police.
_________________________
Welcome, Lisa!
Thank you for your kind words about the post.
To answer your question about the train platform murder attempts when I was in high school: No, nobody called the police unless the murder attempt succeeded in shoving the victim off the "el" platform.
Peace, blessings and solidarity.
"It has gone way beyond a dog eat dog situation. This is why I urge individual bw to just get out and don't look back."
EXACTLY. And if you were never in the jungle to begin with - it's not your responsibility as one of the "privilaged"/blessed ones" (one having grown up in a normal existence from the get go) - to go into these God forsaken Hell Holes and risk your health and sanity trying to "rehabilitate" those who are content being damaged.
It's survival of the fittest in this world, and therefor BW MUST look out for THEMSELVES first and foremost. These wishy washy BW not sure about where their loyalty's lie (with themselves and their futures or the mythical "black community") are DEAD WEIGHT. And therefore must be left behind.
"if your house is on fire and you're trying to get you and your children out, you cannot afford to spend time and energy trying to drag out your 300-lbs uncle who is lying drunk on the couch. You've got to accept that he's GONE. That's a triage situation."
Right again. It's not BW's responsibility to save anyone but THEMSELVES and their children. Black women should be ASHAMED of themselves "defending" black men from the "big bad world" and other men.SMH This total reversal of gender roles it's what's led to most problems many BW suffer from.
And the very notion that a woman can "save" a community is LUDICROUS. Black women need to save themselves and their future offspring by getting OUT of the Hell Holes (wherever they find them and they're not just in ghettos) and moving on up and OUT of the so-called "community".
Try building an ACTUAL community that can be depended on by marrying well, and developing close friendships and ties regardless of "race".
Those who have your back, and your children's back, are your community.
Not some pie in the sky lie/fantasy.
"I don't think that any time or energy should be spent trying to "convert" anyone."
Black women have to come to the conclusion that they're deserving of the best on their own. And when they realize it, they'll willingly search out the information on how to attain a saner and more joyful existence.
"Black women complain about how many times they are verbally assaulted by black men with sexually aggressive comments when they walk down the street.
I ask:
How many times have you stopped right there, pulled out a cell phone camera to record the predator, or called 911 to report menacing behavior and DEMANDED a police report?"
The thing to do is if possible, in SAFE surroundings (safety always has to come first) one should immediately get law enforcement involved.
I had a situation years ago in front of a public library with a group of DBRBM cretins.
I safely got a six foot six inch ruggedly built white police officer to intervene.
To say the least, he handled the situation.LOL
And I felt QUITE safe and secure after this police officers involvement.
These bastards have to KNOW that you're not afraid to bring heat and WHITE heat to the situation.
One of the reasons ALL of the craziness from the BM AND BW DBR's continues is because good decent black/biracial folks don't stand up for ourselves enough.
And are too afraid of the justice system "bringing a brotha/sister (SMH) down".
When decent law abiding people of color are being assaulted (and threatened with assualt/harrassed, etc...) I don't care WHAT happens to them. And I don't care if they're not treated fairly by the justice system either.
This current madness will only end when enough of these BM and BW thugs understand that they're not going to be coddled or defended by decent people of color, because of fear of what white racists (in law enforcement or not) may do to them.
Personally I don't give a damn.
Again, BW CAN fight back, BUT it MUST be done safely and sometimes anonymously.
Felicia
Welcome, Felicia!
I wrote this with fellowship between BW in mind. But there are important points to note about other types of women.
I feel that we should seek fellowship with any good, worthy, and excellent woman. Surface attributes (race, creed, sexual orientation,etc.) should NOT stop us from fellowshipping with other excellent women.
The reality though, is that this also involves screening out huge numbers of foul women.
The "average" Becky, Lupe or J. Lo/Mei Ling/Fatima are extremely foul when it comes to BW's interests.
Average Becky feels that it is fitting and proper for BW to live (and suffer) like dogs. Average Becky will NOT be pleased to see a BW with a loving & lovable Brad.
Average Lupe or J.Lo also feels that it is fitting and proper for BW to live like dogs. She will NOT be pleased to see a BW with a loving & lovable Jose.
Average Mei-Ling feels the same as above. She will NOT be pleased to see a BW with a loving & lovable Jin-Dae.
Average Fatima [Arab/Pakistani] feels the same as above. She will NOT be pleased to see a BW with a loving & lovable Ali. Given the chance, she will try to steer Muslim BW toward Muslim BM convicted felons as marriage prospects.
These are the reactions of "average" women from other groups. There's a whole other level of madness & attempted sabotage from Reject Becky, Reject Lupe or J.Lo, Reject Mei Ling, and Reject Fatima who sleep with and marry BM.
Peace, blessings and solidarity.
"The "average" Becky, Lupe or J. Lo/Mei Ling/Fatima are extremely foul when it comes to BW's interests.
Average Becky feels that it is fitting and proper for BW to live (and suffer) like dogs. Average Becky will NOT be pleased to see a BW with a loving & lovable Brad.
Average Lupe or J.Lo also feels that it is fitting and proper for BW to live like dogs. She will NOT be pleased to see a BW with a loving & lovable Jose.
Average Mei-Ling feels the same as above. She will NOT be pleased to see a BW with a loving & lovable Jin-Dae.
Average Fatima [Arab/Pakistani] feels the same as above. She will NOT be pleased to see a BW with a loving & lovable Ali. Given the chance, she will try to steer Muslim BW toward Muslim BM convicted felons as marriage prospects.
These are the reactions of "average" women from other groups. There's a whole other level of madness & attempted sabotage from Reject Becky, Reject Lupe or J.Lo, Reject Mei Ling, and Reject Fatima who sleep with and marry BM."
DAYUM!LOL (chuckling BIG time) That's nothing but the truth. Ladies, I think ALL of us IR married/dating sistas have some stories to tell.
The crazy mammies don't like it either I tell you.
Anyway, it's of the upmost importance to ONLY associate with quality CONFIDENT and ABOVE average people.
Most of my girlfriends here in the Midwest are white with the exception of one from the Philippines and one Biracial woman (BW/WM parents) who looks like she could be a member of my family. All of my friends - white and non white - are happily married to successful white professionals. Family oriented good men. We're all - with the exception of two (and not the sista or filipina) - stay at home moms.
So we have plenty of time for get togethers, planing play dates, inviting each other over for family BBQ's and picnics. The whole nine yards.
Life is good. And really, it's the simple things that make life pleasurable.
Those little things. Like fellowship that you're mentioning.
And that's another reason why the net is SO important. There are women out there who sadly can't express (or feel that they can't express) who they really are - and what they really feel - outside of the internet.
And this is especially true for black women (and girls) I believe.
So, these various blogs are REALLY serving an important need.
In closing, I must say you NAILED it Khadija with this quote right here...
"I feel that we should seek fellowship with any good, worthy, and excellent woman. Surface attributes (race, creed, sexual orientation,etc.) should NOT stop us from fellowshipping with other excellent women."
I've always felt the exact same way. And this in itself can rile up many black folks.lol
It's taken as "who does she think she is".SMH
If other people believe they have a "place" and are content on staying in it, hey that's on them.
Any sensible woman would be INSANE to box oneself in needlessly like that.
Great blog as usual Khadija.
Keep it up!
Felicia
I know I'm probably off topic, but on a side note, I'd like to mention that my two BEST girlfriends from back home (I'm originally from CA but now reside in the Midwest) are quickly approaching 40 and are now lamenting the precious time they waisted in their late 20's and early 30's being exclusive "black love" advocates/proponents.
They're both beautiful, kind, sweet, and successful black women belonging to the so called "Love Jones Cohort" mentioned in that report about the growingly single black middle class.
They're now branching out because they can't afford to care about what the so called "black community" thinks.
Heck, the "community" certainly didn't deliver the "promised goods" to them.
And they did everything they were "supposed to".
Thankfully, they're now ONLY interested in quality men period. Whatever color/"race"/ethncicity he comes in. Which is where there minds should have been to begin with.
Yes this is a cautionary tale. I think (and pray) everything will turn out well for them.
Because they have expressed to me in no uncertain terms that they'd like to be married with kids and have the kind of lifestyle I have.
Black women who know better need to be getting the point across to younger black women in no uncertain terms.
LOVE IS LOVE. And "race"/color doesn't matter. Only Quality matters.
Spread the word ladies.
Felicia
A timely post. I just finished talking to a sista friend in need of a friend and I have been guilty in the past of being too busy for face to face interactions. This post was a reminder of my need to unplug at times.
I chuckled reading about meals, my teenage son often says I am the only person he knows that makes dinner and expects that we will all sit down to eat together. I was raised with a Mama and Granny who did the Sunday dinner thing and while my Sunday dinners are no longer elaborate, I believe there is value in connecting while breaking bread.
For at least a year now I have been talking about getting my circle of Black females together to bread bread on a regular basis, once again another reminder that life should not get so busy that are interactions are reduced to Facebook.
I'll come back later to comment about the comments.
Peace,
Shay
Hello there, Felicia!
{excited waving}
Thank you for your kind words.
Waking up late brings a set of (extra) problems with it. I know this from my own experiences. Unlike BM, men from other groups generally get married by their early 30s (at the latest) because other men are raised to WANT to be husbands & legitimate fathers. NOT baby-daddies!
This means that Black women who wake up late are dealing with divorced men with children. Otherwise, these other men wouldn't be single & available. Other men are NOT raised to be permanent adolescents living out a Playboy mansion fantasy. They're raised to be family men.
It means dealing with someone who has the emotional battle scars from divorce. It means dealing with the complications of small children from their first marriage [who are often trained by their mothers to be spies & cranky saboteurs].
It means dealing with the complications of [often sullen] teenagers from their first marriage. [Of the two scenarios, I prefer sullen teenagers over cranky small children. At the least the teenagers will be up & out of the house within a few years.]
This tends to be MORE complicated than dealing with the problems posed by BM's earlier baby-mammas & earlier (illegitimate) children because these non-Black children were being raised in an INTACT home with their fathers. Which means that they are generally more upset with the idea of a prospective new wife.
I'll say this the rough & ugly (but brutally honest) way: Black bastard children were almost never raised in an intact home with both parents (that means including the BM that an older woman is dating). Therefore, they are less likely to emotionally respond to a new wife as if she was the cause of their previous home life being disrupted. They never had a home life to be disrupted.
All of these complications can be avoided if BW wake up earlier in life, in time to be the FIRST (and God willing, ONLY) wife. The unfortunate thing is that many of the younger BW I talk to have bought in to the Tyra Banks, etc. feuled myth that "don't nobody want BW except BM (who only want them as a booty-call population)."
Yes, these blogs serve an important purpose. They are a large part of what snapped me out of the Black Nationalist trance I was in. And snapped me into touch with the reality of my own (and other BW's) interests.
________________________
Welcome, Black Girl in Maine/Shay!
What your son described is the end result of civilized behavior & lifestyles dying out from living memory. We now have several generations of Black people who have NEVER experienced large, communal meals EXCEPT at funeral repasts. This is shocking & scary.
Peace, blessings and solidarity.
A friend just called me about the news about the slaying of Jennifer Hudson's mother & brother. [I don't watch much tv & I never watch the local news.]
So, I feel the need to repeat some things I've said before on other blogs:
Please get the word out to all BW you know & care about:
STOP SOCIALIZING IN ALL-BLACK ENVIRONMENTS! STOP FISHING IN THE POISONED ALL-BLACK DATING POOL!
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, STAY AWAY FROM JAILBIRDS! DON'T ALLOW JAILBIRDS INTO YOUR LIFE ON ANY LEVEL!
It appears that Jennifer Hudson's brother-in-law is the primary suspect in these slayings. Some of the Black entertainment sites are saying that this individual is married to Jennifer Hudson's sister, who is a bus driver. The Chicago Tribune is being coy about this connection by marriage. The couple's 7 year old son is "missing."
It seems that this Negro is out on probation after serving 7 years in prison for attempted murder and carjacking. According to reports, "Public records list one of [the Negro's] previous addresses as [Jennifer Hudson's mother's] home."
So, it appears that the thanks that Jennifer Hudson's mother got for helping out a po' BM, ex-offender, son-in-law is being murdered in her own home, along with her son.
It appears that what Jennifer Hudson's sister got for hooking up with a Negro criminal is having her own mother & brother murdered.
So, the next time some confused (or evil-intentioned) Black person argues that BW "should give po' BM ex-cons a chance," remind them of what happened to Jennifer Hudson's mother & brother. Also remind them that the ONLY reason we know about this particular case is because of her celebrity status.
This sort of thing happens A LOT in Black residential areas without making the national news.
May the victims rest in peace.
Peace, blessings and solidarity.
"So, the next time some confused (or evil-intentioned) Black person argues that BW "should give po' BM ex-cons a chance," remind them of what happened to Jennifer Hudson's mother & brother. Also remind them that the ONLY reason we know about this particular case is because of her celebrity status."
AMEN my fellow lioness! AMEN! to EVERY word you said!
I mean AMEN: May G-d's will be done, and may it be done, right now, for all bw/bg's.
I'm sick, and tired of this warped/distorted ideology being pushed on WOMEN. Be a MAN, and make your own way like all the poor immigrants who come here picking cotton, and washing floors.
: (
Khadija, sister, this is why I'm advocating a system for the training of boys. Here it is right her, sister.
This idea that black women-- are the system and have the resources to reform damaged people-- is absurd, and anybody peddling this cultish mentality needs to be pimp slapped for real. Shut them down.
I told you I've had an epiphany: I'm absolutely astonished that the ENTIRE black community sincerely believes that the black woman lacking a cohesive infrastructure with solid resources has the ability to train boys to become men or WORSE reform men who have had their will broken ,and no longer have a conscience.
What on G-d's earth is wrong with our community?
Man, I can't believe this, I can't believe just how cultish, and backward the thinking is amongst the black American masses.
Sister, this is ONE of MANY reasons I've quit the ENTIRE Muslim community:
The immigrant Muslim community is generally uneducated and uninformed when it comes to challenges and concerns of the black community in general and spends a great amount of time under the mistaken belief that their system including their theology but especially their orthodoxy is enough to reform the black men and WOMEN that convert to Islam. I swear by our Lord that the infrastructure in the IMM community is not even close to the Jesuits or the first "version" of the NOI. They can't even touch it. Yet, they go out of their way to "attempt" notice I said "attempt" to socialize these people dismissing the legitimate concerns of black women--particularly parents.
Its worse in the BAM community becuase you are made to feel that you are being "uncompassionate" to some one who has payed their time for their crime.
I'll never forget a white Muslim blogger who told a story about a man who wrote a note to the sheik speaking that evening that he enjoyed sexual activity with children. The response to that note was written about from a position of humor: EXCUSE ME? Since when is molesting children FUNNY?
--I also want to add here that I refuse to speak or associate with any BAM woman who knowingly married a man who is registered sex offender or committed a violent crime--and on top of that exhibits a character that has clearly not been successfully rehabilitated.
Furthermore, "some" of the Muslim prison chaplains are not trained in ANY mental health profession. You don't push any man or woman that was charged and found guilty of any violent or sexual crime on the Muslim community. They need to be removed from the congregation. Or at least, watched. Remember sis, this isn't the Nation of Islam where they had a {{system}} to manage that dysfunction.
I'm also angry with the broader society for dumping these individuals on us instead of appropriating certian public funds for their rehabilitation. What in the heck do I pay $9,000 of property taxes for?
I'm deeply disappointed in BAM academics and scholars for not taking an aggressively approach to combating this problem: remember that salafi cult sis? Many of the bm in that cult are former felons.
The only BAM I've seen step out and also get his behind beat up so to speak is Abdur Rahman Muhammad. He is the only one! Instead of the praise he deserved for caring about the safety and healthiness of our community he was slandered, and everything else.
I'm tired Khadija, you hear me sis, I'm just tired...
Now onto the subject at hand
Peace & Blessings to all:
: )
I'm going to be very honest, and admit that I've given up on friendship or a sense of community at this time in my life. I'm currently praying for healthy companionship in which the relationship is mutually beneficial. I'm asking the Master of the Universe to guide, and direct me in this matter. I'm also working on my relationship with myself, and my master so that I can be a blessing to some one else.
I'm struggling with bonding with other bw for these reasons:
1)There once was a time when Muslims were not hated, and despised people. It's now politically correct to practice bigotry and hate on the Muslim community. In particular, being Muslim in the black community NEVER was an issue. But 911 has reawakened old fears, and the crusader mentality in our nation. I tried befriending non-Muslim bw only to find that they could not accept me for who I am, and would deliberately make every little single thing about religion. I would try to get our girls together to go skating or to go to the county fairs--they would find ways to interject a religious debate over everything including outings that were designed to be fun. Some befriended me with the intention to convert me, and when I didn't convert after a period of time, they terminated the relationship. Some also felt uncomfortable with me becuase I'm veiled.
2) When I was a SAHM I tried befriending women in my local Mocha Moms group. For the most part all women
were cordial. This could be my local demographics but many were dismayed that I was a young mother and married at that. I found that the elite of that mothers group in particular were clearly uncomfortable with my marital status, and would act very weird. I also got tired of their un-tested assumptions about the legitimacy of marriage, and the authenticity of my conversion: I had been Muslim for 5 years before I married my husband.
They just could not handle that they had to wait until their late 30's to marry, and would frequently question my about my future reproductive choices: how many are exactly planning to have: SIX!
3) I'm a firm believer that it is your job to socialize your children--children can not learn with out being taught manners and rules. I'm not a supermama, and I'm probably not a great mother, but I can not deal with people who have children that are ill mannered, belligerent, obnoxious, sexually perverted, and hateful. If your child has a special need that's an entirely different story: this calls for compassion. I tried befriending bw but when my daughter started to pick up their kid's nasty behaviours, I had to choose my paradigm over theirs. I don't even want to hear " you can't shield your children from everything, they are going to run into some times" DUH! That's true to a point: young children should not be around older children who have not been home trained to such a degree that they have the emotional strength to obey their mothers in their absence despite peer pressure. To produce this type of "thinking" child requires a parent who has the skills to do it. That is my goal. I'm not saying it should be the standard or everyone must think like me but I'm not interested in pursuing relationships with other bw who can't control their children becuase they think they are their child's friend.
4) Ive befriend wealthy bw, but found they felt "sorry for little oh miriam." I'm not interested in being anyone's charity project. I don't need you to buy my dinner if we dine out nor do I need you to purchase a frock if we go see a musical. I'll do it myself. That type of behaviour is insulting to me.
So, here I am. Weird and different! LOL
I'd like to befriend some one who sit on my patio and sip ice tea in silence or to Lena Horne
I'd like to befriend some one who can go shopping, and we have a pretend strip tease in the fitting room!
Just kidding.. maybe
What ever happened to JOY?
My best friends are books.
I'm learning to be content with that, and move on.
Peace
...continued...
I find it quite remarkable to hear so many good, worthy and excellent BW say either, "NO. I don't want any friends" or "NO. I'm not willing to reach out to find other excellent women." And I know in my heart that these voices are accurately speaking for many members of the silent audience.
This is quite remarkable.
I expected more passive resistance to committing to personal efforts. I already know that as a people, we loooooove to rail about things that we can't control. We get verrrrry quiet when it comes to dynamics that WE can control. We get very quiet when it comes to stepping up to the plate ourselves; instead of screaming about what somebody else is doing/not doing.
So, when I hear women openly reject the idea of them reaching to other good, worthy, and excellent BW, I have a few questions about these positions:
If it's not worth your effort to reach out to, and find, other excellent BW, how are things going to change for BW?
If it's not worth your effort to reach out to, & find, other excellent BW, perhaps we should all simply seek to attach ourselves to non-Blacks (who have healthier collectives), and call it a day. Please know that I'm NOT being sarcastic. I'm totally serious, because this is a logical strategy to advocate if it is NOT worth the energy to try to reach out.
Miriam, in your case (and that of other parents), I'm NOT saying that folks should have just anybody & their poorly-raised kids around one's children. I'm talking about activities that you do that are separate from your daughter.
Another question: If you are making yourself content with books in the long run, what are you modelling for her? How will she learn to screen people and develop healthy friendships if she doesn't see you doing it?
I've also had periods of burn-out, where I temporarily pull back from outreach efforts. I'm just not understanding how anyone sees these sorts of postures working over the long haul. Maybe I'm confused. Maybe I'm missing something. This is quite possible. I've misunderstood things before. I will do so in the future.
Please help me understand how this is going to work over the long haul.
Peace, blessings and solidarity.
Of course, it's tragic what's happened to Jennifer Hudson's mom and brother, but my heart goes out to her now because they are gone. She's the one in pain and will never be the same again. And I think I heard that she's engaged to be married soon? OMG!
However, I'm never surprised at these incidents. I **expect** them to happen because I keep my eye on those social INDICATORS and I never turn away from them, no matter what anyone says. Many of these incidents can be predicted with a high degree of certainty in certain neighborhoods or social settings, if we keep our eye on those indicators.
However, most AAs, I've encountered, refuse to look at indicators and usually get angry when I've pointed them out. They'd prefer to wrap themselves up in magical thinking.
In general, AAs are a people who are in a constant state of mystification, perpetual surprise and denial about so many things re other black people. (Someone wrote an article about that which I posted on my "Commonsense" site). So many AAs want to see black folks, especially bm, as mostly being angelic victims of de evil wm and nonblacks as devils--with barely anything in between. LOL!
DBR people of all groups are damaged and damaged people are always going to behave like they're damaged, sooner or later. We all have minor flaws, but a damaged person exhibits an intense PATTERN of anti-social or sometimes anti-self flaws or counterproductive, anti, hurtful/abusive behavior **over a period of time.** That is, if you know anything about their history. It's a PATTERN--even in young children--that can be seen clearly.
So, it's not rocket science and should NOT come as a surprise when these folks lash out. If enough of them are packed into any enclave, sooner or later they WILL look for a target. There are TOO MANY DBR folks packed into many of these neighborhoods or strutting around in certain social circles. They need to be spread out throughout the society. This is the main reason why bw should NOT care whether ANY of these DBRbm "leaves home." LOL!
And AA women cannot repair these damaged folks. Many more AA women and children are becoming victimized or damaged themselves by not getting away from these DBRs. Notice the ever-increasing number of AA women going to jail, dropping out of life, ending up in mental health facilities, or dead.
So on another note, re those excellent and worthy bw you talk about, Khadija--I strive towards being my best in all the ways that are important to me, and I consider myself to be a Quality Woman (QW). I've been determined to surround myself with ONLY quality people and have ONLY quality experiences, and I've succeeded overwhelmingly--because I can simply walk away from non-quality folks.
What a person becomes, or the quality of their life, is mostly produced by what's in their environment. Rather than have damaged people in my emotional or experiential life, I'd rather be alone--forever.
Re developing relationships with other Qbw, I'm a person who relishes deep emotional intimacy with other QW as well as QM. I never spend more than a minute with women or men who I don't consider Qs. Even if I'm around them physically, and may mingle with them for a variety of reasons, I don't allow them into my **core** emotional life.
During my life, I've found bw who can be emotionally intimate with me and I with them. However, these relationships usually take a LOT of sharing time because I've got to be there during the highs and lows--and all in between--in that woman's life and I expect her to be there for me too--especially during the relationship **developing** phase.
But as you say, it's absolutely worth it because once the relationship is developed, both of us can mostly passively reap (during certain periods) the benefits from being in each others' lives. So I definitely agree with you that bw ought to invest in and develop these relationships with other women if both are willing and able to invest the time and energy. This is usually the ONLY source of safety and support for a bw, if she doesn't have a supportive family.
Also, it's very important to first of all find other bw who are Qw-material or in the process of becoming a Qw who WANT that type of relationship with you. You cannot just assume it. Many of the bw talked about on these sites who act out online and offline are damaged and will never be able to be Qw, without lots of intervention/therapy, and probably not even then.
When I'm developing a relationship with a women or man, I've found it vital to tell the person the BIGGIES of what I want and need from the relationship as well as the relationship breakers because some things CANNOT be assumed.I also require them to tell me their biggies and breakers. Of course, we can't tell each other every little itty bitty thing, but I think it's critical to mention the biggies and the breakers.
I've found this to be the best way for me to develop the Quality relationships that I have. It definitely clears up a lot of guesswork, confusion, misunderstandings, etc. I don't have time and energy for that.
Since the relationships with Qws can be time-intensive, I tend to consciously limit myself starting new relationships because I know I don't have enough time or energy to invest in more than a few of them, that is, and simultaneously be fair to her. I believe strongly in reciprocity. Therefore, I don't want to cheat another Qw when she needs for me to be there, just as I don't want her to shortchange me.
All in all, I've had a few disappointing experiences with bw so-called "friends," but I've also had many more wonderful experiences than disappointing ones with other bw throughout my life.
I suppose this explains my totally pro-bw stance. I get along well with most bw in my life and the ones who I know I can't get along with, I leave them totally alone. Since I can walk away instantly from anyone who tries to harm me, I've never allowed anyone to emotionally devastate me.
As a child, I was taught to regard people as innocent until they prove themselves guilty, but once they prove themselves guilty, I can cut them off without an afterthought. So this has proven to be a great teaching for me.
I've found this to be an excellent way to never overlook the gems--whether women or men of any group. Some gems will never become an intimate friend or lover, but they're great to have in your life.
So I love meeting new people because I can vet people well. I'm a good judge of character; I can easily spot the users before they can even unfold their scheme.
Peace and blessings:
Thank you for respecting my feelings, and experiences. I appreciate not being dismissed.
Praise G-d for that.
Concerning the sectarian issue:
"Second, part of this enmity is what Muslim Blacks have earned for ourselves collectively by "checking out" of the Black community & its issues. Bro. Abdur-Rahman Muhammad talked about this mass "checkout" in his series "Why Blackamerican Muslims Don't Stand for Justice." Khadija
I can't speak for others but I know I was a supportive, and consistent reader of Brother Muhammads blog. I knew that as soon as he published that series "the wheat would be separated from shaft"in the Muslim community--I never dismissed the seriousness of his work becuase it was on the blogsphere. I knew it would spread in the mind, and hearts of people who were waking up from the cultish sects within Islam; waking up to the inevitable reformation that is occurring in Islamic history; and waking up from being systematically taught through orthodoxy to put themselves underneath ( forget the back of the bus) the bus and allow other nations to pimp our contributions to civil rights.
Here's the problem sister: not all BAM's checked out! Let's not forget the IMM's have more political and financial power than we do becuase they are united or appear to be united. They can flex their power: we can not. There has always been pockets of "us" working in the BA community but we ourselves have been deliberately isolated by other Muslims including BAM's who are being paid by the IMM's. Remember there are IMM's who promote Islamic fascism--what does fascism do to people who are indepdent thinkers: it exterminates them. There are IMM's who really are fifth columns and are manipulating some of our brightest BAM academics and scholars. We are dealing with movements from overseas who have nations backing them. I've been screaming this from the top of my lungs: we can not compete with these people in our present condition. Every time I tried to bring up this point, I'm "making blanket statements" or "personalizing" or "being hypersensitive"-My character is deliberately attacked. This is one reason I quit the Muslim blogsphere, save your blog, becuase I can't take being confined to talk versus taking action.
Khadija, we are not competing with little pockets of disenfranchised IMM Muslims we are competing with movements that have hidden members of their nations governments financially, and politically supporting them: this why there is such a lop sided agenda in our masjids, and centers. Any BAM that tries to promote social activism is going to be publicly labeled as a socialist which is a cleverly disguised way of calling them a KAFIR--that's exterminating us sister.
Also, another issue to put out there is that many of us that converted were told by IMM's that the NOI and WDM community were NOT Muslims. I'm talking about IMM's who wrote books, produced electronic media, and even held "classes" on this subject. Some of us truly didn't know any better if we were coming from a Christian background.
"We are collectively riding on the goodwill earned by the NOI's good works within Black residential areas. What have Black Orthodox Muslims ever done to help our fellow Black folks? Next to nothing. We have the reactions that our own hands have created." Khadija
This is very true. I must confess, that after I had my baby, I seriously considered joining the NOI.
You know what I'm totally confused about?
Imam Siraj Wahaj is totally baffling to me?
I don't understand the logic he is using to arrive at his judgements?
What I see from him is deliberately trying to manipulate the NOI through so called "Interfaith" notice I did not say "Intrafaith" discussions? What I see him trying to do is not only change their aqidah but also change their agenda, culture, and infrastructure, so that they end up becoming subordinate to the dominate IMM group.
If this happens, I'm done. There will be no place for mentally stable, educated, and well adjusted BAM's to go.
I bring this up to demonstrate to you the danger that BAM Muslims are in right now.
continued...
continued...
Please help me understand how this is going to work over the long haul.- Khadija
Khadija, I'm not giving up on reaching out to bw. I'm burnt out at the moment.
I'm taking this time to focus on strengthening myself, and my relation with the creator.
I'm taking this time to pray, meditate, and ask for guidance to how I should go about seeking intentional community with another bw. I want to proceed from a position of: joy, peace, and faith versus: bitterness, disappointment, and hatred. I feel I need to get my self straight, and also prepare my family before allowing people to come into our heart, and home.
Let me tell you something about me: I love long, and I love hard--I'm getting too old for the surface level egocentric games--I thrive on quality.
And by the way, don't be messin with my books now! lol lol they seriously are my friends. You should see my home! Books everywhere--and on a positive note, my daughter loves books, and sleeps with them right along with her baby dolls! lol lol : )
I don't think its mentally healthy or good for our civilization period to be isolated.
I also don't think its wise to give up on each other.
I have been lonely for three years and I'm married! lol lol It always nice to have a girl friend or two or maybe three.
This is just where I am at now. I'd being lying to you, and other readers if I said anything else.
I'm also going into baby making mode and am striving to keep anything or anyone far away from me so that my emotional and physical energy is not usurped for dubious reasons.
Since I'm being honest: I will confess, that I am afraid to bond or to LOVE becuase I'm tired of being dumped.
I don't have any solutions or ideas: thats why I'm praying, meditating, and asking for guidance.
Peace
Hello there, Evia!
I was in the hair salon this morning, and of course the salon-wide discussion revolved around Jennifer Hudson's tragedy. About half the women in the salon were spouting the usual DBR-enabling dogma of: "we shouldn't be 'judgmental' about ex-offenders, some people do change, yadda, yadda, yadda..."
The other half weren't trying to hear any of that noise and were saying that it was quite OBVIOUS from this JAILBIRD's background, that he was going to hurt somebody. It was just a matter of time. We also questioned why any woman would choose to cuddle up to one of these jailbird-ticking bombs.
At which point, the DBR-enablers claimed that "women can't always know a man's background." The response was the observation that simply looking at the Negro's photograph told the tale regarding what he was about.
Ewww. Enough about that.
And you're right. A person's quality of life is determined by what and who they surround themselves with. That's one reason why I can't stand mediocrity. I don't want that spilling over onto me & my life. Everything is connected. Everything matters.
One similar observation that I've read that appears to be true is the following: The average income of the 5 closest people to you is usually around where your income is. I've seen this in other areas of life. There was a recent study (verifying the common-sense observation) that men who have friends who cheat on their wives are more likely to cheat as well.
I've gotten burned and I've been hurt while looking for other QW. However, these negative experiences have shown me how to do a better job of screening people. I've improved over the years with steady practice.
And yes, the "passive" benefits that one reaps from a friendship with a QW are more than worth the search. It's like the tag line on the commercial: "Priceless."
_____________________________
Hello there, Miriam!
Part 1:
I loooove my books too!
Like I've said earlier, I've been burned & hurt in my experiences while reaching out. I've had to step back, nurse my wounds, and figure out how I missed screening some people out earlier in the process. I've never pretended that any of this is easy. It's HARD.
Please understand that I'm not trying to cajole anybody into reaching out. As I've said before, everybody has to do what works best for them, in their own situation.
I'm just holding the mirror up for all of us to look at ourselves, ME INCLUDED. Collectively, we're operating on auto-pilot in so many areas of life. Considering the negative consequences that BW are reaping, I think we need to step back and examine ourselves. And especially examine our hearts, and our character.
I had to email Rev. Lisa to tell her that she & bell hooks were right, right, RIGHT to focus on internal dynamics. If we consistently REFUSE to deal with the things that are under our control, then we can FORGET about changing our external circumstances.
Certain types of widespread, pervasive dysfunctions ONLY find a home in sickly soil.
...to be continued...
Peace, blessings and solidarity.
sister seeking,
as i read the reasons you gave for taking a break from relationships with other black women, I was able to completely relate.
I've tried forging friendships with other nursing SAHM and came up empty handed.
I've socialized with a great number of middle class to upper middle class women to end up coming to the conclusion that I need to learn when to talk about my past or people will end up feeling sorry for me.
I've also tried being friends with non-black women and quickly learned that most of those friendships are also one-sided with most black women being required to do a great deal of validating in order to keep the relationship pumping. Or always regarded as the strong half...the "mammy."
With that being said, now let me say this to everyone:
Us strong, good, quality women seem to think we are the only ones who are great. We are under the impression that we are the only ones who know how to keep a relationship going and we're not. There are others like us except they are dressed in a different suit.
Unfortunately, we are not always going to be able to befriend those with the same exact values & qualities as we have. I do believe they must be on the same level though or a greater level than us. I know I have mentioned this before but my very best friend is a woman who is pondering undergoing a sex change. She is one of those people who CAN NOT do small talk. She can't just "shoot the breeze." She & I have nothing in common except our devotion to the other.
I've come to realize that many of us great women are blind to the hearts of other women who are not just like us. We want everything to be packaged & produced to our liking. This is totally understandable but unrealistic.
One other thing I've noticed, that goes on in the hearts of many of us great women, is that we do not like being challenged, inspired or motivated by anyone else -especially another woman. The greatest of us are easily threatened. Many of us want to only be the teacher, never the student. My best friend challenges me, and when I got pregnant with my youngest child, had to dig all up in my behind because I needed it. We've become conditioned to be the only "right" person in the room.
Many of us great women also like to pretend that we have it all together especially because of how "book smart" we are.
And to be completely honest, many of us great quality women would have nothing to stand on if they had not been educated because they just like many others are spiritually dead.
I said all of that to say, I do not believe a person like me can not find a "friend." It's impossible. We have the universe looking out for us because of our many contributions to her. We may not have many friends but we should have at least one GREAT friend.
The fact is many of us are scared of being hurt. We haven't been vulnerable except with our spouse or children in a long time so many of us do not know how to begin blooming in the area of friendship. Only the strongest of us will learn.
@ Evia,
my best friend is like you, in the way that she will tell a person exactly what her "biggies" are in a relationship...lol
Correction:
"She & I have nothing in common except our devotion to the other."
Should have been
She & I have nothing in common except our inability to just "shoot the breeze and our devotion to the other."
...continued...
Hello again, Miriam!
I'm happy you brought this up; because these are some other issues that need to be aired out.
At this point, I don't blame the IMMs. I've heard a southern saying, "Find a fool, bump his head." I don't blame them for bumping our heads and running over us.
We LET them do this. We offered up our heads to be "bumped." In many cases, we chased after immigrants and ASKED them to bump our heads.
What the immigrants did ONLY succeeded because of our internal weaknesses. Most of all, our collective programmed self-hatred as a people. We have consistently displayed this programmed self-hatred over the centuries through our internal colorism, our hysterical quest for social integration with non-Blacks, our straight-up IDOLATRY of everything and everyone NON-BLACK.
Maybe it's just me, but I don't and won't take guidance from outsiders when it comes to intimate circumstances concerning my own people.
I won't take certain types of guidance from a "biracial" like Sen. Obama (who did NOT grow up among our people; and therefore does NOT know us from the inside-out). I won't take certain types of guidance from Arabs & Pakistanis who also know nothing about our context.
I also won't take certain types of guidance from non-AAs Black folks who are also not intimately familiar with our particular circumstances.
Finally, I also won't take certain types of guidance from AAs who have had their thinking molded & formed totally by non-AAs. I don't listen to AA leaders & scholars who didn't "come through us." This the core of what's wrong with Black crossover politicians.
This is also what's wrong with the vast majority of Orthodox Black Muslim scholars. The run off to Arab countries to be trained; and they return to us as fake Arabs.
Let me be clear: I'm NOT saying that if somebody has studied under non-AAs, that means that I automatically disqualify them from having anything to say of value regarding our people's destiny. I would like to learn to speak Arabic with a native speaker accent, and to recite the Quran with a native accent.
However, before going to others, I've always made a point of reading and studying the thoughts of MY OWN people first! I read Elijah Muhammad's Message to the Blackman BEFORE reading Imam Khomeini's Islam and Revolution.
Back to your point about most of our current BAM scholars...
We (AAs) didn't "train up" these people (crossover Black politicians, Orthodox Black Muslim scholars, etc.). They weren't molded & formed by our culture or our thinking. We didn't screen them. It's no wonder that most of them are serving somebody else's interests! Why wouldn't they serve their teachers (masters)?!! That's what they were trained to do!
I'll say this the rough way: Only a fool takes intimate, family guidance from somebody who's NOT close family!
NOBODY ELSE gives AAs that type of deference & listens to us like that! This is why AAs have allowed outsiders (like Stokely Carmichael, etc.) hold command & control positions within our organizations. And nobody allows AAs to have similar C & C spots within their stuff. And they're right not to do so! The best guidance comes from people who actually understand what's going on with people, from the inside-out.
Now...I will listen to these other sorts of people when it comes to general topics that don't hinge on factors that are particular to our specific history & our specific context.
I believe that this responds to your point about the monetary resources, etc. available to the IMMs to promote their propaganda. To me, it doesn't matter how much money they have. The flaw was in so many of us looking to listen to them (and any other outsider who will talk AT us) in the first place, instead of seeking out OUR OWN PEOPLE.
The other observation is that other people have been lacking in material resources; and have yet held their own against much-better-equipped oppressors. I would cite the example of Hizballah's victory against Israel from 2 years ago. Under the truly excellent management of Sheik Nasrallah and others, they managed to do something that these same Arab governments you've alluded to can't do: defend their own countries against outside invasion!
I will also note for the record that Hizballah only came into existence as a result of the Israeli invasion & occupation of Lebanon in 1982. Before all of this, the Shia were the poorest and least-organized religious community in Lebanon.
The Lebanese Shia are still the poorest sect in Lebanon, but their quality of life has improved because Hizballah has provided services that the rich, Sunni/Christian government has refused to provide to the Shias in southern Lebanon over the decades (schools, hospitals, drinking water, etc.).
I am recounting this sequence of events in detail because it's important to note that the ONLY reason why Hizballah has been successful is because they engage in internal mental & spiritual cleansing. They engage in deliberate, sustained character-building of their members. Without this sort of INTERNAL work they would have become corrupt, weak, and ultimately destroyed by Israel like secular Arab organizations.
...Corrupt, weak, and ultimately destroyed by the FBI like our AA civil rights organizations from the 1960s...
...Corrupt, weak, and ultimately destroyed by the immigrant Muslims (with help from within) like Black Orthodox Muslim organizations...
We can all see the pattern here. Sustained internal struggle is the only thing that defeats outside sabotage over the long haul. The cosmetic, external changes that AAs love to engage in (to the exclusion of internal work), ultimately lead to defeat & destruction.
The only benefit that I see AAs have as a result of our names, ancestral languages, cultures, etc. being ripped away from us is that we are uniquely free to re-invent ourselves. All around the globe there are examples of other people who are tightly bound to traditions that do not serve them.
We could have (and we are still free to do so)taken what is best from our history & culture; and combined this with new ideas. The problem wasn't in BAMs choosing to re-invent ourselves. The problem was in us choosing to re-invent ourselves as other people. Borrowed clothes never truly fit.
Peace, blessings and solidarity.
Hey Khadijah,
I can't believe some of the stuff I've read here. Soaking razors in garlic and lemon juice to hinder the healing process of a wound?! That's sheer madness. Some sistas are so infested with self-hatred and rage that they'll stop at nothing to spread their misery.
At my old high school, I was introduced to some of the most jaded people on the planet. I remember when I was sharing that info with my friend's old BF (we all went to the same high school). Predictably, he copped pleas for them: "Imagine living in the Ps and being broke, not knowing your father, and having a crackhead for a mother."
I said "Who cares? Imagine growing up in a two-family home where there was no love. Imagine having an uninvolved mother. Imagined having a father who was crazy enough to drive a wedge between his family. That was the life I led and I never felt the need to dump my s*** on people."
Negroes need to quit copping pleas for poisonous Black people.
My relationships with Black women weren't always the greatest. So many of them were too busy fronting as a defense mechanism. They were always scared to be themselves and show the world that they were smart and creative and could do more than be casual sex partners.
I've seen some self-destructive behaviors that transcend class lines but these violent and defeatist behaviors are prevalent in the hood.
I can't even talk about wanting marriage with children without miserable hood chicks (Latinas as well) shooting down those prospects. Just because they've always sold themselves short, I'm supposed to share in their bitterness?
Sidebar:
I just wanted to let you know that Tyra Banks isn't one of those selfish Black women that say "Only Black men will want Black women." She's an advocate of interracial dating and has engaged in it as well. On her show, she's even noted how some Black men have hang-ups on hair and skin color.
Welcome, Anonymiss!
Yes, this conversation has been really...quite remarkable...quite remarkable, indeed. Eye-opening in so many ways.
About Tyra Banks: I have no clue what she actually said or did, this is just what some younger BW told me about one of her shows. Apparently, she had an episode where there were various men & women on. And the men (including the BM chosen as guests) chose every other race of women as potential dates.
I can't remember if they said the BW guests were chosen last or not at all. It sounded really soul-killing from their description of it. I couldn't understand why a BW would even put such mess on the air. (If this was an accurate description of the episode. I don't know. I've never watched her show.)
Peace, blessings and solidarity.
Khadijah,
I remember that episode. I didn't like it, LOL!
@ Anonymiss
You said:
Unfortunately, there are sistas who don't set any real deal breakers and believe that not having any kids makes a man the cream of the crop.
Pleeeese tell me that it has not come to this!!
Now THAT is just soooo disturbing to even hear that the standards have dropped soooo low.
Thank you for mentioning the show "Sister, Sister"...I had never heard of that show.
Hey Khadija!
You mentioned Tyra's Show...and i don't watch it but please share why is it "soul killing" for black women to recognize that there are black men who do not choose THEM first? Does this mean that the SOULS of black women are tied to whether or not they are approved of by black men?
The only thing that can kill my soul is whatever has captured my soul!
If I were on a stage and black men were on stage choosing non-black women as their "top choice", it would not faze me ONE BIT because my measurement of self is not based on what black men think or what black men choose.
Peace, blessings and DUNAMIS!
Lisa
Peace and blessings:
@ Destouet
I agree wholeheartedly with everything you said. Right on!
This is one reason I decided to pull back, and take a look at myself before attempting another friendship.
@Khadija
Be prepared to be put on the Imm's list of potential FBI agents!
lol : )
@Anonymiss
That tenant/landlord example was a good one.
Another reader by the name of anonymiss said it well: save yourself!
Welcome, Lisa!
{excited waving}
We've talked about this before from slightly different angles.
Answer: Because your father actively & deliberately raised you in a pro-Black home, you don't have a lifetime of accumulated slights & wounds to deal with. Or at least not the same ones that are inflicted on BW who grow up in all-Black environments. Unfortunately, the absence of this type of wound is fairly atypical for most AA women growing up in America.
This means that you don't have the accumulated, not-healed, still-open wounds that would make one's spirit extremely vulnerable to this sort of assault. And it IS an assault.
I know that this entire topic is one of our many "agree to disagree" points. I don't believe that most BM's choices are random AT ALL. There's too much of an established history & continued practice of colorism that BM engage in.
If a BW didn't go to a predominantly Black grammar & high school, she might not be as familiar with this as those of us who did. I have slightly more emotional distance from this mess than many BW, because I'm light-skinned and have been traditionally on the favored end of the mess.
But I was not totally blind. By around 4th grade, I noticed the pattern as to who the BF teachers in my all-Black grammar schools picked to be the starlet in school plays in grammar school. [Yes, BW buy into this mess too. In a thousand little, and not so little ways.]
In high school I noticed the pattern to who Black boys felt were pretty. Later, I noticed that, with few exceptions, all the young women on my college pledge line had the same "look." As my boyfriend "joked," "There are all these copies of you up there!"
By college, I knew that I had the option of accepting or rejecting a certain amount of "given" attention from Black males. I knew that I would get a certain amount of attention no matter how "stank" and/or non-conformist my attitude was.
I carefully watched the interactions at the "Black" cafeteria table in my dorm & at other dorms. Many darker girls didn't have as many options at the Black tables, if they wanted favorable attention from the BM. They had to be nicer. They had to have more personality. They had to "dress."
I didn't have to be bothered with all of that. And it's not like I'm a model. I'm a regular, pretty-enough woman. Some of the darker young ladies were much better looking than me.
So...I'm saying all of this to say that the Tyra Banks nonsense was, for many BW, the culmination of a LIFETIME of assaults against their self-worth, assaults against their inner sense of beauty, and assaults against their very souls. It was yet another public put-down from BM.
It's easier for me to say that these men's choices don't capture my soul. I haven't taken a lifetime of the devastating hits to self-worth that many other BW have been subjected to.
Should BW leave these mental wounds wide open for any random BM (or others, like the Beckys, Lupes/J. Los., Mei-Lings, Fatimas, etc. I described earlier) to rub salt in? NO!!! But, the first step is to acknowledge the injury, and ALL the components that caused it.
Peace, blessings and solidarity.
Hello again, Lisa,
...Another thought while I've been home sick, nursing a cold, instead of enjoying my original evening plans...{grumbling}
{I can feel a full-blown rant coming}
I have actively taken note of the colorism within the so-called AA community since I was in high school in the '80s. It sickens me that this problem has gotten worse, so much worse, looking around 20+ years later.
Part of what makes this worse is because many of us are totally dishonest about what's going on. Many of us are totally dishonest about what's motivating our choices. Many of us are totally dishonest about the paper-bag test history that led up to the current manila-folder-test era.
We lie to ourselves and the world when we use "post-racial" language. We never got over the original, VERY REAL, PERVASIVE racial self-hatred. Now we call it other things: celebrating the 'diversity' among Black folks, and other such nonsense.
I heard the self-hatred in Black folks' voices during earlier era's desperate attempts to claim as much non-Black heritage as possible: "I'm 1/23rd Cherokee, 1/57th German, and 1/16th Martian, you know..."
I heard the reflected self-hatred recently when I heard that a certain colored girl was calling herself "tri-racial." It seems that this colored girl's father is half-White. Her mother is all Black.
I've heard the self-hatred when hearing of orthodox Black Muslim men developing fake Arab & Pakistani accents, and running around in traditional Arab/Pakistani garb. As well as purchasing mail-order Arab wives from Morocco. These BM weren't trying to run from their Blackness. You see, that's never the reason for any of the things we collectively do.
It's all just one big coincidence that Black folks' common behaviors have the common trait of moving toward anything & anyone non-Black. Rather, as non-Black as safely possible. One could get lynched in earlier eras. So, we had to "settle" for light-skinned Black folks. Countless "isolated incidents." After centuries of similar isolated incidents. Nothing to see. Move along.
I've watched some Reject Beckys and Reject Lupes make the point of calling their half-Black children biracial instead of Black. I've watched these women's open disappointment when their children turn out to be darker than Black folks like me.
I've watched their open disappointment when their children cannot be distinguished physically from "generic" Black folks. I've watched some of the BM fathers of these children have the same disappointment; and only "coo" over their non-Black-looking children.
I've seen lots of things while watching volumes of people in child support courtrooms. Coincidences, I'm sure.
I've watched many Reject Beckys, Lupes, etc. make a point of NOT BOTHERING to learn how to comb their Black daughters' hair. You see, having children with Black hair textures was NEVER part of the plan. Unfortunately, that's how you can often tell so-called biracial girls with non-Black mothers: their heads look like birds' nests.
God bless her, my hairdresser has made a point of passing out her business cards to these Reject Beckys & Lupes when she sees their Black daughters' non-combed, birds' nest hair.
At least during earlier eras, Black folks couldn't try to "play off" the existence of a problem. Now, we LIE non-stop about it.
Hmmph.
Peace, blessings and solidarity.
I forgot to mention the Black secretary at work who's passing as Latina. [When push comes to shove, she tells the Latino men she dates that she's "Spanish Creole" from New Orleans. Everybody else in her family--parents, siblings, etc.--is "Black."]
How could I have forgotten yet another shining example of "celebrating Black 'diversity'"? That's what I get for letting myself rant! LOL! {gales of laughter}
*Note to audience: If we reach 50 comments, I'll open a 2nd comment thread for this post. I don't like having to scroll down 5 yards worth of screens to read the comments.
Peace and blessings.
Lisa:
I really wish I was lying. So many of us sistas (of the 18-34 demographic) are so clueless as to what good is that we settle for the "not so bad" and turn them into "good enough." We've already surrendered before putting up a good fight because we keep pessimists in our circle. I really hate a downer.
For instance, my older sis and I visited my cousin's family sometime last year. His wife asked us how come we haven't had children yet. See, I'm used to foreign women (we're all Nigerian but I'm American-born) asking about marriage so I was surprised she'd ask about kids. Like isn't my uterus my business?
Anyway, we said that we haven't found the right person. Of course she said that we're just being too picky. I said "I'm not gonna marry and make a family with any ol' body just to be someone's wife." Then she told us "Children are for the women. Even when you're married, women take on the full load of parenthood." (The motherhood idolatry is on steroids in foreign countries.) See what I mean about these women wanting to spread their misery?
Every parent I know has told me to enjoy my child-free life for as long as I can, yet this misery-wielding woman (my cousin's a provider, but a very bad husband) is advising us to do otherwise *SMH*
Hey Khadija,
I do understand what you mean...it is just BAFFLING to me that I grew up in a white town in all-white schools and I have been conditioned to embrace a MUCH more black-conscious self-identification than the blacks who were around all-blacks!!
It is baffling.
I do understand that my parents were very pro-black in the way that they taught self-identity to their black and Puerto Rican children.
For example, my father always pointed out that Puerto Ricans have African ancestry and so we have African ancestry on BOTH sides of our bloodline just as the non-Puerto Rican blacks do.
My parents kept us verrry FAR REMOVED from blacks who were indoctrinated in a slave-mentality that reflected that "whites are the only privileged ones" or reflected this heinous "light is just right" system of hierarchy.
I hope you will write more about HOW black women can heal those still-open and still-festering wounds related to their self-defintion.
I have only encountered it as an observer of other women. I can offer insights but they will not be based on the level of exposure that YOU can offer to the masses.
@ Anonymiss
I wrote a post about "Black Women and Their Motherhood Idolatry" and some women mentioned that they were NEVER TAUGHT that it was okay to remain childless! My jaw dropped to the floor. To think that these "modern" black women in 2008 felt they HAD TO BE breeders is just too disturbing for me to digest....
Peace, blessings and DUNAMIS!
Lisa
Hello there, Lisa!
Your parents were right to keep you away from that madness. Evia and others advocating BW's escape from Black residential areas are also correct. I believe "popular" Black culture is too sick to be healed. It has to be escaped from, at this point.
I believe the first step is for BW to detach ourselves from anybody & everybody who is spouting this madness. This means cutting such people off. Emotionally. Financially. Totally.
For example, the colored girls who were interviewing the Yung Berg creature when he stated that he "doesn't date 'dark butts'" should have terminated the interview right then & there.
This "stop humoring manila-folder-test-individuals" is only one facet of the DEMAND RECIPROCITY NOW! campaign. BW need to cut off anybody & everybody who is putting us down! Period.
I believe that once more of us get out from under the barrage of constant attacks (which is what Black residential areas currently consist of), then we'll start to heal.
Peace, blessings and solidarity.
Here is some info, Khadija, on black women and activism in earlier periods...
Nikki Brown. Private Politics and Public Voices: Black Women's Activism
from World War I to the New Deal. Bloomington Indiana University Press,
2007. 192 pp.p Ilustrations. $29.95 (cloth), ISBN 978-0-253-34804-3.
Reviewed by Michele Coffey
Published on H-Women (September, 2008)
Commissioned by Holly S. Hurlburt
African American Women's Activism
In_ Private Politics and Public Voices_, Nikki Brown examines African
American women?s efforts to organize and demand equality during and
immediately following American involvement in World War I. Brown weaves an
impressive volume of primary research around useful summaries of earlier
works on African American women in the early twentieth century. By
integrating social and political history, Brown presents interesting
insights into the organizational structures of organizations like the
National Association of Colored Women (NACW), the National Association for
the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP), the Universal Negro Improvement
Association (UNIA), and the Anti-Lynching Crusaders (ALC) as well as the
motivations and aspirations of individual women who struggled to uplift
their race through their volunteerism and activism. Ultimately, Brown
concludes that African American women were central to wartime activism
within the African American community and that though the 1920s witnessed a
rise in what Brown terms ?male normative institutions,? African
American women continued to play a vital role in laying the foundation for
the modern civil rights movement (p. 117).
Welcome, Pioneer Valley Woman!
Thanks for the info; I'll look into it. [I really looove the convenience of Amazon.com!]
Peace, blessings and solidarity.
roslynholcomb: I too was one of the black women/girls who was harassed and hazed all through school. Over the years I've become more and more of a loner. I realize that it's not ideal, but interacting with others is so stressful to me that I really prefer my solitude.
Roslyn, heh, PREACH. Preach to this.
Anonymous: I had a situation years ago in front of a public library with a group of DBRBM cretins.
I safely got a six foot six inch ruggedly built white police officer to intervene.
To say the least, he handled the situation.LOL
And I felt QUITE safe and secure after this police officers involvement.
These bastards have to KNOW that you're not afraid to bring heat and WHITE heat to the situation.
One of the reasons ALL of the craziness from the BM AND BW DBR's continues is because good decent black/biracial folks don't stand up for ourselves enough.
And are too afraid of the justice system "bringing a brotha/sister (SMH) down".
Ha ha! Anon, preach this from a mountain top!
quick update, I did have lunch with my best friend. We both realized how much we missed each other!
Next up, another friend from college. Only a two and a half hour drive and besides, she has children of similar ages to mine.
Hello there, Forever Loyal!
YES! YES! YES! Now that's what I'm talking about! Good for you!
Peace, blessings and solidarity.
What ana amazing discussion. I think I got whiplash from shaking my head so much. I want to say thank you Khadija. I really mean that. It is such a blessing to be able to have these very real conversations.
I just emailed my friend and we're having dinner next week. I'll be getting in touch w/more of my wonderful friends as well.
Keep up the good work.
Simone
Welcome, SDG1844/Simone!
You're welcome! Thank YOU for being so generous with your time & your thoughts. I truly appreciate people's active participation in these conversations. I always learn something.
YES! YES! YES! I'm so happy to hear that you're strengthening your connections to your friends. {raised fist salute} Now that's what I'm talking about!
Peace, blessings and solidarity.
I know I'm all late to this party, but, Khadija, you're right when you say that we have to watch which women, Black and non-Black, we befriend and call friend. And you are cor-rect when you say that plenty of Beckys, Rosas, Soon-Yis and Fatimas will NOT be happy to see BW get out from under.
Sistas, don't be fooled when you hear these women and BM say that they don't care what BW do with our lives, where we go, what jobs we work or whom we date/marry. Most of them say that ish until they actually SEE BW going for ours and then the claws come out. These are the same chicks that suddenly come over with exhaustion at the club when they see YOU getting male attention (they only went with you to look prettier next to the cullud gal by comparison) and then decree it's time for BOTH of you to leave. These are the same chicks that proceed to introduce you to the year-old Black janitor with one tooth at the office party when they see fine-a$$ Chet chatting you up. These are the same chicks that suddenly think you're an "uppity n1&&er b!4ch" when they find out your boyfriend/fiance/husband is non-Black when you used to be the "cool," "not like the others" Black chick.
The backlash you've seen so far on blogs like Khadija's, Sara's and Evia's is just the tip of the iceberg. I'd even venture to say the comments these ladies routinely delete and don't post are the tip of the iceberg of the backlash that WILL come once this movement becomes very and unavoidably visible. When folks start seeing BW living for OURSELVES and demanding nothing but the best for ourselves and actually acting upon it the ugly will rain down. We've seen a bit of it with trolls coming to these sites and telling us that don't no one want us not even BM. Do NOT underestimate how low these folks'll stoop in order to keep BW in our perceived places. This society runs and stays cohesive on our backs. No one's going to want their favorite, most reliable pack mules to up and quit on 'em!
Welcome, Witchsistah!
There's no such thing as late to the party here. There's no expiration date on any of these conversations. The par-tay is non-stop up in here! LOL!
Guuurl, you said it ALL when you said:
"Sistas, don't be fooled when you hear these women and BM say that they don't care what BW do with our lives, where we go, what jobs we work or whom we date/marry. Most of them say that ish until they actually SEE BW going for ours and then the claws come out.
...This society runs and stays cohesive on our backs. No one's going to want their favorite, most reliable pack mules to up and quit on 'em!"
That's the PURE truth! There are legions of people who have gotten fat & comfortable from riding our backs. The key to removing these parasites from our backs is for us to get a grip on the dynamics that are under our control---our own choices & actions.
Peace, blessings and solidarity.
I talk to my bff at least 2-3 times a week, and we got together again this past weekend.
We are on a career/health and beauty/personal relationships improvement challenge together, and we check in regularly.
She said she always feels more inspired talking to me, and the feeling is mutual.
It always makes things easier to have support.
Don't discount the importance of friends, ladies!
Hello there, ForeverLoyal!
YES!YES!YES! I'm always delighted to hear about women reaching out to each other, and fellowshipping together.
You said, "It always makes things easier to have support. Don't discount the importance of friends, ladies!"
Yes, true fellowship is important. The foundation of our lives becomes extremely brittle without it.
And as was earlier noted in this conversation, even the "passive" benefits that one reaps from a friendship with a quality woman are more than worth the search/effort. It's like the tag line on the commercial: "Priceless."
Peace, blessings and solidarity.
As-salaamu-alaikum and Ramadhan Mubarak!
I am happy to report that I recently traveled a few hours a way to see another college friend I'll call Mary (I brought the college friend mentioned in previous comments along. Those two hadn't seen each other since Mary got married some years ago).
As it happens, Mary and I have children around the same age, so our children got to socialize and observe their moms keeping ties.
I was speaking to Mary about her social life, and she said she pretty much goes to work, picks up the kids and then comes home. I encouraged her to find the time to go out and meet people in her area.
Anyway, we had a good time and hope to see each other once a month. Next time, it's her turn to make the drive.
ForeverLoyal,
Wa Alaikum As Salaam and Ramadan Kareem!
That's wonderful news; thanks for the updates!
Peace, blessings and solidarity.
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