Thursday, July 9, 2009

Yet Another Emerging, DISASTROUS Social Trend: Normalizing Single Adoption As "Plan B" For Black Women Who Haven't Married By 35

This essay is contained in my new book. I'm delighted to announce that The Sojourner's Passport site has launched! You can visit it at http://www.sojournerspassport.com/.

Everyone, I can't thank you enough for your ongoing encouragement and support; I truly appreciate it. Your support is what made this possible. And here's a special shout-out to my web designers at Educo Web Design. They're nice people to deal with, and they do outstanding work!

Peace and blessings,
Khadija Nassif

96 comments:

Anonymous said...

Purchasing a kid from overseas does not necessarily mean that child will be without their own set of problems. Americans are not the only country where children are molested. However, this is my first time really thinking about the "Becky and Lupue" cast offs...now that is something to think about. I am sure most single bw can become a seragate parent to a young relative. As much as I love my adult son...being a parent isn't always that spectular.

a.

Evia said...

I think Khadija, that some bw are reading our warnings here, but are still NOT connecting the cold, hard, bitter dots.

We've all heard by now about the swim club in Philly that didn't let the black kids use the pool.

This is going to sound harsh, but if as is being reported that the OOW rate among AAs has risen to 82% (???) as ActsofFaith Blog is reporting on her blog (and 70% was ALREADY just mindboggling), why is it that we don't expect for people to not to want to have anything to do with us AAs with either of those rates? We are a FAILED people--as a group.

You've continually warned--ever since I've been aware of you--about the permanent underclass that's forming--that the bulk of AAs will be stuck in.

I've been keenly aware of this too and this is why I've advocated that those AAs with common sense need to try to separate and get a new brand. AAs will very soon become complete pariahs. No one will want to associate with us. Other races and even other black ethnics cannot tell most of us apart from the Sheniquas and DeShawns even now if we're out of context. Most people already consider us a part of that permanent underclass. I know this may be painful to some, but AAs have been written off as a loss.

I even know some working class AAs who don't want their children to socialize with, go to the boys and girls club or any camp with, or associate with other working class AA children because the AA TITANIC is mostly underwater. Everyone knows that way too many AA children tend to be rowdy and out of control. No one wants their children to sink to where Sheniqua and Ray-Ray's children have sunk. Many AA parents I know have already taken their children out of public schools to get them away from Sheniqua and Ray Ray's children. There's going to be a lot of fallout. Things are going to get very ugly!

This is what we've been talking about here all of the time. I'm not quite sure why there's surprise about this story. There are black clubs that wouldn't want those children to use the swim club. The Ywca and Ymca in the last 2 areas I've lived in have raised the fees astronomically high to keep out Sheniqua and Ray-Ray's children. They let a few of them in after a 2-week waiting list and then a screening process. They check police records, school records, family records, etc.

So guess what? Folks will protest and that club may let those black kids in there, but the whites are then going to put their kids somewhere else.

Also, let me point out that many continental Africans ALSO don't want to have anything much to do with AAs these days. AAs have degenerated and everybody seems to know it except for some of us. You constantly talk about this and I constantly talk about the ABC-DBR effect on all of us, yet I think some people think we're exaggerating. LOL!

Many young continental African women here are STRICTLY forbidden not to EVER date an AA man. Some segments of AA women are still considered okay because we're considered education-oriented, ambitious and more responsible, but this general ABC-DBR virus is really a pox on all AAs. Yet so many AAs continue to make excuses, defend, rationalize, enable, cover it up and not call it out for what it is.

Some of us individual AAs will do fine, but the general group had better brace itself. AAs are in a free fall. The bitter truth is that many people in other groups do NOT want ANY connection with AAs unless it's on their terms.

And AAs have sat back and allowed the ABCs and DBRs to do this. There's no point in being angry at anyone else. 'We have met the enemy and he is us' (or those AAs who sat silently and allowed this to happen.)

Khadija said...

A.,

You said, "Purchasing a kid from overseas does not necessarily mean that child will be without their own set of problems. Americans are not the only country where children are molested."-

I never said that buying a child from overseas "guarantees" the absence of certain issues. However, buying from overseas increases the odds of being able to adopt an infant who hasn't been corrupted by YEARS of being raised by abusive, depraved individuals.

As with anything else, one has to research the sorts of problems that are likely with infants and children coming from different regions of the world.

For example, I've seen cases involving failed adoptions with White parents who bought White children from Eastern Europe and Russia. Fetal alcohol syndrome is the main problem with infants and other children adopted from Eastern Europe.

The fact that many of the orphanages in these countries warehouse children without any real human interaction is another huge problem with infants and children from Eastern Europe. This "nobody ever really speaks to these children" sort of warehousing in many of these orphanages creates deranged children. That are then passed off onto infertile White couples for a lot of money in privately arranged adoptions.

Another complication is that many foreign countries are currently tightening up their requirements for international adoption of their children. This is often the result of high-profile atrocities committed by (White) American adoptive parents. It's also a political issue in many countries. The selling of their children is a source of national shame and anger.

Whatever folks plan to do requires a LOT of research while keeping their eyes wide open. No illusions.
_______________________

Evia,

I 100% co-sign your comment. Like you said, other people have quite logically and rationally written AAs off as a liability/loss. And they should do so, because we ARE a failed people.

I saw that 82% OOW rate cited on Faith's blog and I still can't get over it. Even though I know better logically. I know that we're in FREE FALL; but each new indicator that documents just how low we've sunk as a collective is still painful to hear.

This is why I'm so frantic about encouraging as many AA women as possible to get OUT while they can.

Soon, AAs will be TRAPPED in unofficial "quarantine zones." AAs will be quarantined and KEPT FAR AWAY from everybody else for the safety and preservation of these other people. The bulk of AAs will be quarantined socially, economically, employment-wise, and in terms of residential areas!

The quarantine zones will be areas where the DBRbm will be free to rob, ravish, torture and kill Black women and children as they please. These places have already begun to emerge in Black residential areas. Places with names like DUNBAR VILLAGE and HOVEY STREET.
-

The TRUE purpose of tv shows like CNN's Black in America is to WARN those few non-AAs who haven't caught the hint that we're to be avoided at all costs! They put all our various pathologies on display as a warning to others about us.

Evia, like you said, "AAs have degenerated and everybody seems to know it except for some of us."-

I know that as you stated,"some bw are reading our warnings here, but are still NOT connecting the cold, hard, bitter dots."-

Well...the unfortunate reality is that these women (AND their children) won't make it through what's coming our people's way in a few minutes: The Endless Night of Permanent Underclass-Pariah Status for AAs.

I just know that I've done what I can to sound the alarm.

Peace, blessings and solidarity.

Lovebug said...

Hello Khadija, I have just recently started to visit your blog and enjoy reading it. I have gained many new insights.

I just want to add to what Evia said about us being a failed people as a group. I have never been one of those women that idolize black men, but I must say reading that most of the kids in foster care have black fathers is truly disturbing. How can we complain about racial oppression keeping us down when black men refuse to fulfill basic responsibilities such as taking care of their children? I know there are exceptions but this does not look good at all.

Regardless of various criticisms of White men, by comparison, they do a far better job in taking care of their children. My heart aches for the black community not just in America but worldwide, because I know we are so much better than this.

Aphrodite said...

I too can't get my head around the the 82%.


I almost cried when I read that. That means now almost ALL black children born are born OOW and all the dysfunction and poverty that includes.


I can see the underclass you have mentioned before. There is no way that level of dysfunction can be turned around. Its impossible.


Right now myself, my mother and some of my aunts are battling over/for my cousin. She is 12 sexually active [pretty much being molested by older men in her neighborhood] and lives in the projects with her grandmother and her Sheniqua of an alcoholic promiscuous mother.


I started by giving her "gifts" body lotion, shower gel etc... and would share the essays of various bloggers with her.


She has already had dealings with DBRBM [recently got beaten, yes beaten by a group of adult, yes adult, women over a DBRBM. These women came to her middle school and the police, cps, etc was involved. The women are now stalking her home- they all live in the projects.]

My greatest fear is that she will get pregnant or be harmed/killed as is the concern of my other relatives. She is already being shunned by some of my other younger cousins.


I have had some aunts who are empty nesters who have offered to take her in, but her mother and her grandmother are fighting us and what we tell her tooth and nail and won't allow anyone else to take the girl in - including her more functional aunt [her mother's sister] who despite having a teen pregnancy just like her sister keeps telling her that is not the way to go.


The grandmother will actually to my horror and disbelief defend the indefensible in so many ways and is trying to limit contact between her and some of us who are reaching out to her.


I have to come back to this as I am at a loss again. It is sickening to watch this process unfolding on a personal level (touching someone in my family) and collectively.


I know the best thing that I can do is do what I can to move forward individually, but this is so upsetting and heartbreaking.


At one time I thought that adoption was ok. I was going under the presumption that I could love a child that was not my own as much as I love my own. I never considered this:

"Ray-Ray's cast-off or had-to-be-taken-away children often have negative genetic inheritances that include things like low IQs, developmental delays, and a predisposition to mental illness."


On top of the points you made regarding being exposed to a lot of deviant behavior.


This is beyond sickening. A group of people who have that level of dysfunction.

And the women who adopt although they may be financially a bit better won't they still be vulnerable to the same ills? It is a single parent home, no paternal nurture, one income so if she gets sick or something happens to her as the sole breadwinner- wow. And how can a woman alone handle what was mentioned in #2?


I can recall the doc A Child of Rage about a pastor and his family who adopted a little girl and they had no idea the extent and level of abuse that she had endured and she made their lives a hell on earth for several years. They went through a lot just to get to the point where this girl was semi-functional. It was awful.


Thank you Khadija for all the work you, Evia, Halima and others do...

Khadija said...

Lovebug,

Welcome! I'm delighted that you stopped by. You said, "How can we complain about racial oppression keeping us down when black men refuse to fulfill basic responsibilities such as taking care of their children? I know there are exceptions but this does not look good at all."-

That's the thing. The problems that are literally KILLING us as a people are from self-inflicted wounds at this point in time. And instead of dealing with the internal cultural rot, we've wasted the past few decades re-enacting protest scenes from 1950s Selma.
___________________

Aphrodite,

I know this is going to sound as cold as ice, but I hope and pray that you're NOT going into your cousin's housing project or neighborhood to visit her. As you know, going into these hellholes is life-threatening in general. And if your 12 year old cousin already has a "hit-squad" of adult Sheniqua potential assassins chasing after her, everybody around her is also in GRAVE danger!

Sheniquas will KILL any and every other BW over DBRbms. I know you want to help your cousin, but your first priority is to preserve your OWN life. Please remember the case I mentioned in an earlier post months ago---the KILLING of a young lady named Shontae Blanche:

Police describe women's fatal melee - Brawl began as an argument about a man, then quickly escalated into violence.

By Richard Winton , Times Staff Writers and Jean-Paul Renaud, Times Staff Writers
November 07, 2007

A deadly and highly unusual melee among 30 young women in South Los Angeles was triggered by a dispute over a man who dated two of the female combatants, Los Angeles police said Tuesday.

Many of the women, while not gang members, had ties to men who belonged to gangs, police said. The two groups, authorities said, arranged to meet near Slauson and Western avenues to discuss the romantic triangle.

"The women associated with the rival groups went to the location to discuss it, but once there it quickly turned ugly," said Police Cmdr. Pat Gannon, who is in charge of the South Bureau homicide unit.

Khadija said...

Part 2

At the height of the confrontation, a woman from one group got into her convertible, screamed and rammed the vehicle into the crowd, police said. Shontae Treniece Blanche, 22, an expectant mother and part-time student at Cal State Northridge, was struck and killed. A second woman was critically injured.

On Tuesday, authorities announced that they had taken the driver into custody and booked her on suspicion of murder. According to police, the driver, Unique Kiana Bishop, 21, fled the scene but showed up at the 77th Street Division station with her mother. Police officials said Bishop told them that she struck the crowd by accident.

Bishop and the dead woman are from South Los Angeles but appear not to have known each other, police said. Bishop, who was on probation for a burglary conviction at the time of the incident, has been ordered held on $1-million bond.

According to police, the discussion about the man turned violent in a flash.

Gannon said "the discussion turned to yelling and soon the fists began to fly." Witnesses gave varying estimates of the number of women involved in the brawl, which took place in a gas station parking lot, with estimates ranging from 12 to 30 women fighting.

Blanche, Gannon said, went to the gas station with a friend and got involved in the argument. Then, Gannon said, Bishop got into her car and drove into the other group of women, killing Blanche and pinning another woman against another vehicle, injuring her critically. Although authorities initially feared that the injured woman would lose her leg, they said Tuesday that surgeons managed to save the limb.

Police, clarifying and expanding on initial accounts of the incident, said Blanche was trapped under Bishop's convertible after being struck. Gannon said the suspect, apparently trying to free Blanche's body from the car, "drove backward over her body, running over her . . . before speeding away."
-

Peace, blessings and solidarity.

Lorraine said...

Thanks for this timely post Khadija. If my hubby stated any of these facts (that he sees on the daily by the way) he would be branded as a racist and even being married to me would not save him from the venom that his bw (LCSW)social worker colleagues would spew. He would be fired and I would be branded as an uppity, sell-out, out of touch bw who doesn't understand REAL black folk.

My friend as I mentioned in a previous post is trying to adopt her little cousin in the Alabama foster care system who was born to a dbr Becky cast off. This child has a chance now at a decent life.

What you said about the overseas adoption of infants is also right on the money. Most of them will NOT have had the exposure to corrupt, abusive parents.

Evia,

Yes as I previously stated, reality is harsh but we (bws) need to hear it, see it in print and absorb the truth into our pysches. The 82% truly saddens me, though it does not surprise me. But the ramifications to us as a people should have bw shouting off the roof tops that this madness has to stop. We are the ones perpetuating it.

Ray Ray and DeShawns abound in every community. We do have to keep proving that we are not all Sheniqua Tannashays and what nots. If I wasn't so busy trying to empower other bw to accept the challenge of finding their true happiness, I would be depressed by all of this. It's sad, but it is harsh, stark reality.

Khadija said...

Lorraine,

Thank you for your kind words about the post; I truly appreciate it.

My thanks are to Roslyn for raising the subject with her blog post. I'm just piggybacking off of her original discussion. [Which is a good one, by the way. I urge everybody to check it out!]

Peace, blessings and solidarity.

Felicia said...

There is NO need for a "Plan B", when you open yourself up to the global community of good non-colorist, family oriented, marriage minded, and gainfully employed men regardless of "race".

The ONLY reason why these poor BW even feel they have to resort to a "Plan B" is because they are psychological VICTIMS of the so called "bc".

They are basically living in a self-crated alternate universe. A different reality than the rest of humanity.

It's quite sad...

Their "solution" is NO solution. Unfortunately they'll most likely have to find out the hard way.

Thank you Khadija for bringing attention to this madness. This totally unproductive viewpoint born out of desperation, ignorance, and indoctrination.

The IDEAL situation for a child is to be loved and raised by his or her natural married parents.

Plan A (marrying a compatible, non-color struck, gainfully employed, responsible, family oriented, and faithful man REGARDLESS OF "RACE") should be the ONLY plan there is.

THEN, if one wishes to adopt great. BUT, it shouldn't be a default choice.

I WISH more BW would stop making themselves look so pathetic in the public eye.SMH

And I agree that CNN's Black in America series is basically saying, "black folks it s*cks to be you".

Of COURSE it's geared towards white folks because black people didn't need an "investigative report" to know how bad it is out there.

WE ALREADY KNOW.

lisa99 said...

Thank you Khadija for bringing attention to this madness. This totally unproductive viewpoint born out of desperation, ignorance, and indoctrination.

The IDEAL situation for a child is to be loved and raised by his or her natural married parents.

Plan A (marrying a compatible, non-color struck, gainfully employed, responsible, family oriented, and faithful man REGARDLESS OF "RACE") should be the ONLY plan there is.


As I mentioned in Roslyn's post, it is mindboggling to me that black women don't see the deeper, more disturbing parts of this "trend," and are celebrating it as a making lemonade out of lemons type of situation.

Then again, perhaps I shouldn't be surprised by this point.

But in my own life, as a woman in her early 30s who is still unmarried (although my goal is for that to change very soon), I am getting the "you can adopt, you know," suggestion thrown at me more and more. I hold steadfast to my conviction that I will not be pushed into believing that this woeful "Plan B," is somehow okay.

I was just on another board and a young black woman in her EARLY 20s was saying that she had begun to think about this option if she didn't find a husband by a certain age. Yes, this is normal conversation among many black women now... they all but expect that they will reach their late 30s-early 40s unmarried, so they plan to still realize their "dream" of motherhood through adoption.

But if I or anyone dares to say that they should instead use this energy and conversation time to focus on finding a quality mate and THEN have children, then we are the crazy ones. Oh no... it's time for me to get away from this madness.

I also agree that the more we push to have "our stories" told through the mainstream media, the more sad, pathetic and asexual we will appear. We "think" these stories are showing us in a positive fashion -- us saving poor unwanted babies -- but instead, we're being seen as undateable, unloveable, damaged goods. These stories do NOT present an overall positive and empowering image of black women AT ALL.

Khadija said...

Felicia,

You said, "The ONLY reason why these poor BW even feel they have to resort to a "Plan B" is because they are psychological VICTIMS of the so called "bc"."-

This is quite true. However, I also think that some of y'all who didn't grow up within the norms of the so-called AA community don't understand the dynamics of what's going on with many of these issues.

You said, "I WISH more BW would stop making themselves look so pathetic in the public eye.SMH"-

Yes, this is yet another example of how many AA women haven't fully thought through the implications of the public image they're creating. Of themselves as individuals; or of us as a group. This ties into Lisa99's comment.
___________________

Lisa99,

You said, "As I mentioned in Roslyn's post, it is mindboggling to me that black women don't see the deeper, more disturbing parts of this "trend," and are celebrating it as a making lemonade out of lemons type of situation.

...Yes, this is normal conversation among many black women now... they all but expect that they will reach their late 30s-early 40s unmarried, so they plan to still realize their "dream" of motherhood through adoption."
-

The flip side of this equation is the TREMENDOUS social pressure that AA women are under regarding motherhood.

That pressure (and the subtle insults) that go along with it are REAL. Let's not pretend that we don't know this. Or that we have nooo idea whatsoever why women are doing this.

Here's a few quick questions to those who don't have children:

How many times have you had other women assume that they somehow have more "life experience" and wisdom than you because they have kids?

How many times have you noticed other women (including female relatives, including younger women) talking to you as if you're not a "real" adult because you don't have kids?

The pressure surrounding all of this (plus most women's desire to experience parenthood) is what many of these women are responding to in this maladaptive way.

Lisa99, you said "I also agree that the more we push to have "our stories" told through the mainstream media, the more sad, pathetic and asexual we will appear. We "think" these stories are showing us in a positive fashion -- us saving poor unwanted babies -- but instead, we're being seen as undateable, unloveable, damaged goods. These stories do NOT present an overall positive and empowering image of black women AT ALL."-

This type of cluelessness is what I find scariest of all. It's one thing to do things with a clear understanding of the liabilities involved. It's something else to be so far out of touch with reality as to not understand the concept of stigma and stigmatizing things.

I'm not saying any of this to dissuade single BW who seriously want to adopt, and are KNOWINGLY choosing to risk the potential consequences, from doing so. My issue is that I don't feel that the AA women who are contemplating doing this are making knowing, INFORMED choices.

I'm saying that AA women need to understand the HUGE liabilities associated with this situation. The liabilities that this creates for finding a suitable husband (as Roslyn pointed out in her post).

And the HIGH probability of TOTAL disaster for adoptive parents that is inherent in these situations (which is the angle that I'm focusing on in this post).

And, finally, I'm saying that AA women need to fully explore ALL of their options before doing this as an unnecessary "last resort" when it didn't have to be that way.

Peace, blessings and solidarity.

Dale Edmonds said...

International adoption is not necessarily a better solution. The decent programs take a long time and usually require the adoptive parents have extensive local knowledge. Then therere's corruption that ends up creating outright child trafficking and misery in most of the common international programmes.

The Lie We Love is a great overview, although EJ Graff has changed her position on China with more evidence of widespread corruption there coming out.

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/story/cms.php?story_id=4508

I have four internationally adoptd kids in an open adoption, and the essential problem is that adoption requires a trauma - something sad has happened to mean a child requires a second family. It's not a magical bandaid to fix not having children biologically.

People going into international adoption thinking it's an easy option are just passing the buck to their adopted children to deal with later on.

Khadija said...

Dale,

You raised a VERY important point when you said, "the essential problem is that adoption requires a trauma - something sad has happened to mean a child requires a second family. It's not a magical bandaid to fix not having children biologically."-

And it's been my observation that this "something sad" usually means something that's very messy to deal with in the long run.

Thanks for the link to the article. It was quite informative.

I never said that any of these options were "easy." [Not that I believe you made this claim. I'm just saying this as a point of clarification.] I view the entire adoption situation as a choice of a variety of risks and often evils. Most of which people haven't thought through.

Peace, blessings and solidarity.

Aphrodite said...

Hello Khadija,


"I know this is going to sound as cold as ice, but I hope and pray that you're NOT going into your cousin's housing project or neighborhood to visit her."



My mother and I did quite a few times. We were caught up in the rush to help and protect. I feel foolish typing that considering all that I have learned from these blogs.

But you are right we must consider our own safety first. Thank you for reminding me.



Re: stigma


I get it now. I was kind of not there when we talked about the sexual abuse angle and weight in a previous conversation and how this could be damaging for BW's collective image.

Seeing this story about single adoption now clarifies it for me and how this comes across to others.

As was stated these stories are not for other AA's, but are for other groups and no one is going to delve into these issues in a compassionate understanding way - people are just going to look at the surface of whats presented, make whatever conclusions, and move on.


Especially since BW are not viewed as individuals - in addition to the "cultural rot" you mentioned that is so widespread that others are aware of.


When Lisa99 said this: "the more sad, pathetic and asexual we will appear."


That was the kicker for me.



"My issue is that I don't feel that the AA women who are contemplating doing this are making knowing, INFORMED choices."


This was brought up after Katrina when quite a few AA's {some in my community} wanted to open their homes to the orphans that resulted and some people spoke out and cautioned them to really think about this. They warned people that this was a noble and honorable thing, but not to get caught up in the emotions and asked people if they could really handle a child or children with this level of trauma/you not knowing their past prior to this trauma.




Re: pressure to be mothers


The flip side of this equation is the TREMENDOUS social pressure that AA women are under regarding motherhood.

That pressure (and the subtle insults) that go along with it are REAL.


How many times have you had other women assume that they somehow have more "life experience" and wisdom than you because they have kids?

How many times have you noticed other women (including female relatives, including younger women) talking to you as if you're not a "real" adult because you don't have kids?"



I and a few of my female friends have dealt with this. Not from my family - I have gotten more pressure about not ever being in a long term relationship/marriage more than being a mother.


But I have gotten that from co-workers, associates, basically anyone who has no business being involved in my reproductive planning. I even had an interviewer, a WW conducting my job interview, to tell me that my life hadn't even begun bc I had no children.

focusedpurpose said...

hi Khadija-

great post as usual!

so...when a SINGLE woman has a child, be it biological or adopted, isn't she still a SINGLE MOTHER? isn't that child still being raised OUT OF WEDLOCK?

i promise to goodness and all that's holy that it seems folks, bw specificly in this instance, in large numbers still REFUSE to THINK for ourselves and in terms of what is best for us. at.all.times.

this topic has been on my mind, particularly with the colorism/hueism that was attached to the stories i read. that is a whole other post though.

women without children are poked at. women with children are poked at. women with education are poked at. women without education are poked at. women with money are...without...you get my point. at the end of the day, we MUST start operating from a place of what is best for us, without apology or concern for public opinion.

we discussed "dumping evidence" (the babies born of the sexcapades of bm and non bw) awhile back. thank you for highlighting which men's children are clogging up the system. that "one drop" business was allowing the bill for this madness to be charged to bw's account. i have even heard all the "black" babies being used as evidence that we are inferior mothers.

the whole smelly mess gives me a headache. bw are really going to have to take up our beds and walk, sprint, carpool out of bondage. no patty cake here, we must start THINKING strategically. WHEN have folks ever told us in mainstream anything something that was actually GOOD for us? based upon WHAT have folks decided something has changed? if it is being highlight in mainstream media, chances are one should NOT do it.

blessings sis,
focusedpurpose

Felicia said...

Lisa99 said...

"I also agree that the more we push to have "our stories" told through the mainstream media, the more sad, pathetic and asexual we will appear. We "think" these stories are showing us in a positive fashion -- us saving poor unwanted babies -- but instead, we're being seen as undateable, unloveable, damaged goods. These stories do NOT present an overall positive and empowering image of black women AT ALL."

PREACH IT. That's what they don't understand. Inside the currently dysfunctional "bc" this mammism (sacrificing ones true desires - that is marriage - for the "greater good" of "saving the race" and suppression of ones needs) is seen as normal somehow. BUT in the real world - OUTSIDE of the "bc" - it's just seen as pathetic, strange, and unnatural.

Everything you said Lisa99. Asexual. And all the rest.

These are not considered feminine traits. It all boils back down to this mammy thing. Again.

Sacrifice, for the "greater good". So called "saving the race". Even when it's killing BW.SMH

PURE MADNESS.

There is a true problem with perception - and the consequences that go along with being perceived in a certain way - that scores of BW apparently don't get.

ak said...

Khadija

My mother was a single mother who was educated enough and made enough money for us to live in very good suburbs that didn't border DBR-ville, although she had to work two to three jobs. And I am an only child.

She had to rely on ME as a little kid to not open the door to strangers when she went to work. And our house had no security alarm. THANK GOD I DIDN'T OPEN THE FRONT DOOR TO ANYBODY OR VENTURE OUT OF MY HOUSE ALONE!

But do these single black women want to visit that upon their adopted kids? I hope the ones with money can at least pay for a housekeeper or nanny.

But like you I don't agree with any of it. Marry a quality man and adopt kids afterward. Sheesh!

And why don't upwardly-mobile black men who make good money and who are in IR marriages adopt these cast-off kids in these homes who were given up by Reject Becky or Reject Lupe? I'm sure they have the money and the space!

Khadija said...

Aphrodite,

You said, "Re: stigma

I get it now. I was kind of not there when we talked about the sexual abuse angle and weight in a previous conversation and how this could be damaging for BW's collective image.

Seeing this story about single adoption now clarifies it for me and how this comes across to others.

As was stated these stories are not for other AA's, but are for other groups and no one is going to delve into these issues in a compassionate understanding way - people are just going to look at the surface of whats presented, make whatever conclusions, and move on.

Especially since BW are not viewed as individuals - in addition to the "cultural rot" you mentioned that is so widespread that others are aware of.
-

Alhamdulilaah! ["Praise God!"] You've got it now! *Smile*
Let me repeat:

Normal humans have an instinctive aversion to being around sickness and disease. This is because hanging around sick and diseased people is anti-survival. This is why the promise to hang around "in sickness and in health" is extracted during marriage vows. If it was normal for humans to hang out with the sick and diseased, there would be no perceived need to extract this sort of promise from an intended spouse.

Behavior that is COMPLETELY out of step with the behavioral norms of every other ethnic group on this planet, BY DEFINITION, is DEVIANT behavior!

NOBODY is inclined to sympathize with deviant behavior. Normal humans have an instinctive AVERSION to deviant behaviors, because deviant behavior is contrary to fitting in with human "herds/packs/troops." And humans are social animals. Going against the herd is usually anti-survival.

When normal humans see deviant behavior of any sort, the instinctive urge is to get FAR away from it. NOT to try to analyze, empathize, sympathize with, or read the mind of the individual involved in the behavior.
-
_______________________

FocusedPurpose,

Thank you for your kind words about the post; I truly appreciate it.

You said, "women without children are poked at. women with children are poked at. women with education are poked at. women without education are poked at. women with money are...without...you get my point. at the end of the day, we MUST start operating from a place of what is best for us, without apology or concern for public opinion."-

My issue is that BW "poke" each other for the wrong things and for the wrong reasons. Some "pokes" are necessary! Better to be "poked" into higher functioning behaviors than to be poked into the pit of dysfunction and stigma.

You said, "the whole smelly mess gives me a headache. bw are really going to have to take up our beds and walk, sprint, carpool out of bondage. no patty cake here, we must start THINKING strategically. WHEN have folks ever told us in mainstream anything something that was actually GOOD for us? based upon WHAT have folks decided something has changed? if it is being highlight in mainstream media, chances are one should NOT do it."(emphasis added)

Hear, hear! I feel the same way. This "whole smelly mess" is giving me the vapors! LOL!

Peace, blessings and solidarity.

ak said...

Aphrodite

What you said about your cousin make me feel so sad. This is what comes from ignoring everything of what what bw and girls have to endure and go through.

We should care about black girls in a well-ropunded manner, and not just care about them going on to higher education. Teach them about higher education, self-esteem, self-care, DBRs and reciprocity simultaneously.

ak said...

Sorry I need spell check I meant 'well-rounded' in that last comment.

ak said...

Aphrodite

The very sad story about your 12 year old cousin is an example of how black girls well under age 18 are seen as oversexed, and are accused of acting 'like big women' and 'acting to grown for their age'. Young black girls living in rough areas are placed on that path especially when their mothers make basically take over the domestic responsibilities of the whole house like a serf and suck away their childhood at every moment. This is how DBR bm try to validate statutory rape and how DBR bw open their mouths to say 'She knew what she was doing'.

Those black adult DBR women going to a middle school to pick on a middle schooler? But they'd rather hold on to the DBR man who tried to sleep with your cousin before they try to call the police on that man? If those DBR women had a daughter by another man, you can bet that a guy like that would already 'try something'. I really hope that you win the battle over your cousin.

I knew a lovely lady who was friends with my mother in the US, she didn't seem DBR at all. But her daughter had gotten pregnant from the age of 13 and she kept the child, unfortunately a baby GIRL, and the woman's daughter kept getting pregnant every other year until she had five children by the age of 25, yes by different males. My mother's friend couldn't stand how her eldest granddaughter was always used as the domestic slave and crutch for daughter whether she was at work or at home. The poor girl had to take care of her younger siblings most of the time.

Even now though my mother hasn't spoken to her friend in a while, my mother thinks that her eldest granddaughter probably ended up pregnant as a teen just as her mother did. Because she was placed on this 'big woman/permanent domestic' path from an early age.

Ensayn1 said...

Khadija, Very interesting and eye opening as usual. I would like to use this "The TRUE purpose of tv shows like CNN's Black in America is to WARN those few non-AAs who haven't caught the hint that we're to be avoided at all costs! They put all our various pathologies on display as a warning to others about us"
as a quote on an upcoming post I will do on CNN's upcoming display, please.

Guidance!

Evia said...

There is a true problem with perception ... that scores of BW apparently don't get.

EXACTLY, Felicia! I don't think AA women understand at all how these dynamics are perceived by non-AAs--including other black ethnics. And we MUST care how we're perceived because we live in the SAME world with everyone else. PERCEPTION is EVERYTHING!

For ex., most snakes are "perceived" as dangerous, but the fact is that only a small proportion of snakes are actually dangerous. The rest of them are friendly. LOL! You'll never convince most people of this though--because snakes have a BAD image problem.

Shrewd people try to carefully and constantly create their POSITIVE image and will fight with all of their might to not allow anything to smear their image.

If you start looking at life and the behavior of males and females of various groups in terms of the "destiny," issue, then a lot of your confusion and anger will disappear. AA men in general do NOT see or WANT their destiny intertwined with typical AA women because that will continue the AA line. Up to very recently and even now (for some), many AA women saw their destiny as interwoven with AA men. This is why so many AA women are having a problem letting AA men go, whereas the bulk of AA men have always wanted to escape their AA-ness because they, through no fault of their own, were conquered. AA-ness reminds them of being conquered.

Women only become conquered by choice. Women, by virtue of their anatomy, can choose to move fluidly throughout the species. This is a natural asset that all women have because ALL heterosexual males want women.

In nature and across all or virtually all species, ALL females can get a male, but ALL males cannot get females. This is why--in a normal environment--males MUST exert themselves in order to compete for females. The reasons for that have filled up many books.

The AA situation is a deviant one in which WAY too many AA females BELIEVE that it's "natural" for a bw to be with a bm. She believes this for no other reason than that racist whites (who decide who is "black") decreed this and self-serving black nationalists type bm rubber stamped it. The ONLY ***natural*** part about it is that humans are designed to mate with other humans. Every other part of that AA woman's belief came from racist whites. The irony of this is that so many of these bw express anger towards racist whites and racist structures, yet their behavior is in lockstep with what the programming that racist whites have passed to them via other "black" people.

@ AK

LOL!!! @ DBR-ville

@Khadija re:

My issue is that BW "poke" each other for the wrong things and for the wrong reasons. Some "pokes" are necessary! Better to be "poked" into higher functioning behaviors than to be poked into the pit of dysfunction and stigma.

Yep. I hear what Focused Purpose is saying, but I agree that some 'pokes' are a LOT better than others. For ex., I'd MUCH rather be poked for having my education and being financially comfortable (lots more choices) than being poked for being a "babymama on welfare"--though both types of us AA women may be poked. LOL! These two pokes are FAR from being the same.

We have to look at where the vast majority of the pokes are coming from. They overwhelmingly come from inadequate, insecure AA males and their cheerleaders. If the typical AA woman could just see those two groups for what they are--losers and pity partyers, then life could be so much brighter. So many AA women keep paying close attention to those groups though. This is where 90% of upwardly mobile-oriented AA women's problems are coming from--inadequate, insecure AA males and their cheerleaders.

geekgrl said...

I feel skewered.

I haven’t read the CNN article mentioned, but I did think adoption was a viable option. I have a strong maternal instinct and I wanted a little brown bun, like me. I know infants are rare in the system, but I thought not so for brown ones. I figured if a got a baby early enough (less than 2 yrs old), they wouldn’t be damaged by the system. I never wanted Lupe’s, Becky, or any other non-bw baby.

Since last year, I have been pretty active. I’ve been going dancing 3 to 4 nights a week, hanging out with my friends more, and doing more things for me. This has made me more selfish. Lately, I’ve come to realize that were I to get a kid, I’d be lucky to go out once a week and would have to shape my life around them instead of me. I’m not ready for that now.

Back to plan A. *sigh*

Sister Seeking, Miriam said...

ASA Sr. Khadija,

I left my response on Roslyn's blog.

I just saw Gina's newest thread...

All right...

Ya'Allah, Yal-Malik, Yal-Quddus, Yal-Aziz, Yal-Rahman, Yal-Raheem, Yal-Wakeel, and Yal-Wali

Yal-Rub, Yal-Rub, Yal-Rub

Protect, guide, and bless those of who understand that serving you means obeying you, being up-right, honerable people, and who are good to ourselves, others, and the earth.

That's all I can say unless I just totally snap off, which won't help, but my GOD, are we sinking, my God...

I'm SO glad, I chose who I chose. I'm glad that becuase I chose who I chose, I have options-Amina has options.

Anonymous said...

Wow. I'm 47 and was considering adoption from foster care. THIS take on it now has me pausing and uttering a huge WHOA! I'm mad; I didn't have the benefit of you ladies or Khadijah when I was younger. So, I'm never married and never had kids. I can adopt; I guess it should be private only. I've never read it so clear before what's really up when foster kids are adopted.

Southland Diva said...

I had been considering single-parent adoption for a couple of years now (I am 40+) but I haven't taken the plunge. My desire remains to have a two-parent family.

Of course there is always the option of marriage/partnership without children.

Thanks for the information about the foster/adoption system. I hadn't considered some of the issues you and Roslyn raised.

Peace

Aphrodite said...

Hello Ak,

Thank you ...

It is a very worrying situation.

My cousin's (aged 12) situation is different yet similar to the "little woman" model you presented.


She is an only child. Due to STDS her mother {also my cousin) is infertile. She developed aggressive uterine cancer very young and had to have a total hysterectomy. I know that she is older than myself, but I know she is under 35.

All of the care for her daughter has fallen on the grandmother
{my aunt} who, imo is too old to care for her and gives her (the 12 year old) no structure, discipline, rules nothing. The 12 year old does as she pleases - literally coming and going all hours of the night. She is treated via total neglect- like a mini adult.


The mother is MIA. She has never had much to do with her daughter and pretty much stays drunk and high and chasing men herself.

I just had no idea that things were that bad between the grandmother and the cousin.


But I do get what you are saying about the "fast" argument- my cousin has gotten that too and I have to keep reminding adults that even if she was naked and begging for is- she is still a kid.



@ Khadija

"Alhamdulilaah! ["Praise God!"] You've got it now! *Smile*"


Yes, and thank you so much for providing this forum and asking the hard questions that lead to revelations/discussion that results in advancement and empowerment.




Re: adoption


I am wondering though if a woman was at that point where she would consider single adoption why not marry out? I mean what would a woman have to lose? If you are that close to the end of your rope why not throw everything including the kitchen sink at the situation? This is so weird.


I guess it feeds into the - she gets points for being a mother and she gets points for saving the race too.

Khadija said...

To the commenter who submitted a comment to this post on Friday, July 10, 2009 at 3:56 PM:

I just rejected your comment because it contained profanity (specifically, the term s***). On a few previous occassions, I edited the profanity out of a few commenters' posts; but I'm not going to do that anymore.

Profanity is not welcome on this blog; and comments containing profanity will be rejected from now on.

Peace, blessings and solidarity.

Khadija said...

AK,

You asked, "And why don't upwardly-mobile black men who make good money and who are in IR marriages adopt these cast-off kids in these homes who were given up by Reject Becky or Reject Lupe? I'm sure they have the money and the space!"-

I think there are some evolutionary biology reasons underlying this. The males of most species are NOT interested in raising another male's offspring. There are several species where once an alpha male wins his dominance struggles with the other males, he then kills the existing cubs. And then impregnates the females of the pride or troop with his OWN offspring.

There are human male parallels with how dangerous it is to put an unrelated man in a position of proximity or authority over children that are not his. This is part of what's underlying the Sheniqua's current boyfriend killed the baby she had with her previous boyfriend cases.
_____________________

Ensayn1/Victor,

Feel free to use the quote.
______________________

Evia,

You said, "And we MUST care how we're perceived because we live in the SAME world with everyone else. PERCEPTION is EVERYTHING!"-

Yes, we MUST care about our collective image. There are extra prices to pay for having a BAD reputation. And that's what this boils down to. AAs have been foolish enough to become the public faces of all sorts of negativity: welfare, crime, OOW, HIV/AIDs, etc., etc.

Others have these problems (although not to the same degree), but they have the common sense to REJECT being associated with these stigmas. Very few Whites or Mexicans get on tv talking about how they're on public aid. The ones that are welfare recipients don't want anybody to know that.

But Sheniquas and Ray-Rays will get on tv and talk on and on about her public aid check, her drug addiction struggle, her AIDs medications, etc. And then we wonder why AAs come to most other people's minds when these issues are raised. This mess is how the AA collective has inadvertently marketed itself ***as PROBLEM people***

And, as you noted, all "pokes" aren't equal or have the same motivations. Some pokes lift you up and other pokes push you into a pit. I praise God for the "pokes" from my parents and others that helped me avoid various types of sorrow and placed me in a comfortable lifestyle.

Khadija said...

Part 2

Geekgrl,

I NEVER intended for anybody to feel "skewered." I just want BW to be forewarned about some aspects to this situation that are rarely discussed. Nobody talks about failed adoptions. Most people aren't aware of this, and the ones who are generally don't talk about it with any real candor.

Like I said earlier, I'm not saying any of this to dissuade single BW who seriously want to adopt, and are KNOWINGLY choosing to risk the potential consequences, from doing so. My issue is that I don't feel that the AA women who are contemplating doing this are making knowing, INFORMED choices.

Higher-caliber Beckys and Lupes cut to the chase and unload their unwanted half-Black babies shortly after birth. Unlike these higher-caliber Beckys and Lupes, Sheniquas usually insist upon keeping babies they KNOW they can't care for.

Sheniquas prefer to keep their children tied up in the child welfare system while they fight against having their parental rights terminated. Sheniqua's battle cry is "I want to FIGHT for MY babies! I'm not going to sign no papers for my babies!" Even when Sheniqua KNOWS that she has NO serious intention of trying to quit drugs, or getting rid of her registered sex offender boyfriend, or anything else she would have to do to make her children safer.

For the most part, Sheniquas are generally extremely selfish and self-absorbed. They're NOT willing to make the changes that would enable them to get their children back. But they also refuse to sign their babies over to people who COULD give them a better chance at life. Sheniquas just want to be able to tell themselves that they "fought for their children." They don't care about the damage they do to their children in the process. That's why their children were taken away in the first place.

The problem is that her babies are getting older (and corrupted by the experience of being in various foster homes) while Sheniqua is playing these games in the child welfare courts.
_______________________

SisterSeeking/Miriam,

Wa Alaikum As Salaam!

Yes, I was also deeply annoyed by the situation that Gina described in her latest post over at What About Our Daughters. {sigh}
________________________

Anonymous,

Again, I'm not saying any of this to dissuade single BW who seriously want to adopt, and are KNOWINGLY choosing to risk the potential consequences, from doing so. I just want BW to have their eyes wide open about these various angles.
___________________________

SouthlandDiva,

You're welcome! Whatever AA women choose to do, they must keep their EYES WIDE OPEN!
____________________________

Aphrodite,

You're welcome!

Peace, blessings and solidarity.

Aphrodite said...

Hello Ak,

"Marry a quality man and adopt kids afterward. Sheesh!"


This is a good point as well. If these women feel like they have "lost out" or "missed the bus", what do they have to lose by waiting a while longer until they find a mate?

Aphrodite said...

Hello Khadija,


"For the most part, Sheniquas are generally extremely selfish and self-absorbed. They're NOT willing to make the changes that would enable them to get their children back. But they also refuse to sign their babies over to people who COULD give them a better chance at life. Sheniquas just want to be able to tell themselves that they "fought for their children." They don't care about the damage they do to their children in the process. That's why their children were taken away in the first place.

The problem is that her babies are getting older (and corrupted by the experience of being in various foster homes) while Sheniqua is playing these games in the child welfare courts."


I have wondered about that a few times..

I have witnessed situations where teleparent BM will fight for visitation and when they win the child consistently gets dropped off at grandma's house for the entire visit. They only see the child when they are picked up and dropped off.


Maybe it is a carefully constructed ruse designed to give the appearance of caring. Plus there are many AA's who are enamored with the struggle and hardship- so they get the benefit of looking like a martyr and get sympathy/bonding from others.


Don't know. Mindboggling.

lisa99 said...

This is a good point as well. If these women feel like they have "lost out" or "missed the bus", what do they have to lose by waiting a while longer until they find a mate?

Exactly. It might have been you, but whoever made the comment about "throwing the kitchen sink" at the mate-finding process is spot on.

And you know, BW need to stop making these vows to themselves that if they aren't married by X age, that they'll adopt. Why put that out there in the universe? I've found too that the women who say that often find themselves at the bewitching age they stated, still not married.

It's a self-fulfilling prophecy to me... if you're giving yourself 5-10 years before you make this "decision," why not spend that time focusing on marriage instead of just letting life "happen" to you all willy-nilly?

I have more to say on some of the other comments... I'll be back!

Cecily said...

Dear Khadija,

My name is Cecily and I am a rising sophomore in college. I've been reading your blog for some time now, as well as other black women empowerment blogs such as Evia's, Sara Taylor's, What About Our Daughters, etc.

I've kept quiet as I've felt that I don't have much to add. I do not have much life experience. I spend the majority of my time succeeding in my scholastic pursuits. My dream is to get a PH.D in Economics.

However, while reading one of your past blog entries I read that you did not have a favorable opinion of the silent lurkers who take take take the wonderful information from these sites without adding any input. I thought about your words for a bit and realized that perhaps my actions could be considered selfish (I don't think you used this word, correct me if you think I misinterpreted your words). Anyways, I just want to take this opportunity to thank everyone of you women out there for your words of wisdom. I didn't grow up in the types of toxic environments many of you women describe. I am thankful that I was my family shielded me from the negative aspects of the "black community", however, my self esteem did suffer when I was about 14 and began going to boarding school full of wealthy white kids. Evia and Sara's blog were instrumental in helping me to realize that I don't have to fit the blond, preppy, lacrosse playing ideal to be beautiful. I that I am gorgeous, intelligent, talented, and charming and I thank you women who dedicate your time to helping other black women realize this.

I feel that my post is one big ramble and I am sorry for that. In short I just want to thank you all and join in the conversation.

Cecily

Anonymous said...

I would've adopted my 10 year old mentee many years ago. She was brilliant, beautiful, and looked so much like me, family members started doing math on their fingers after meeting her ("Now, when she lived on the East Coast ...?"). Her mother refused to relinquish parental rights. In fact, she NEVER did.

16 years later (a year ago), I tried to help the, now, young woman set up a new life after her short stint in JAIL. It failed miserably after 3 months. I cannot help but think about that 10 year old who started to adopt my language ("I think this is an appropriate place for my books"), modify her behavior (asking for the classical CD before bedtime), and shone like a star at every new experience.

I should be grateful: she never stole from me or tried to harm me. She DID walk out on the apartment I set up for her, leaving me with $1,000 phone bill (how, when she had unlimited access to all US states and Canada? COLLECT CALLS FROM JAILS 'CROSS THE COUNTRY), months' of unpaid rent, furniture, and clearing out the place (she, literally, just walked away without notice).

She's contacted me since then, crying the blues about her current life, reminiscing on what she/we had, and doing NOTHING to change her life.

Had her mother just stopped the madness at 10? PERHAPS she could've turned it around with my support, resources, and ingenuity. NOT. Of course, she has a child; of course, she's not raising him. And the beat goes on.

Khadija said...

Cecily,

Welcome! Thank you for your kind words; I truly appreciate it. No, I don't like it when folks take, take, and take some more from a resource without ever putting something back into it.

I understand the feeling that perhaps one doesn't have much to add to a discussion. However, that doesn't prevent anybody from offering an encouraging, supportive word to other commenters who mention some of their struggles or concerns. THIS is what I mean by putting something back in. [I'm not referring to the ability to offer a Ph.D. level dissertation of all the reasons for "x,y, and z." [Although, that sort of feedback is also helpful. LOL!]
_____________________

Anonymous,

I praise God that you came through that experience with only non-catastrophic losses. May God bless you for your kind intentions.

You said, "Had her mother just stopped the madness at 10? PERHAPS she could've turned it around with my support, resources, and ingenuity."-

Unfortunately, from what I've seen it's VERY difficult to turn a child around after they've been "ruined"/corrupted. The older they are, the harder it is. And, contrary to our "these children need to be kept in touch with their biological relatives" ideology, doing so is usually NOT helpful to turning them around.

Their biological relatives are part of the reason why they ended up in the original bad situation. They're either actively part of the original problem; or passively part of the problem (by their apathy).

It's really unfortunate that this young woman's mother refused to "stop the madness" when she was small (and therefore more salvagable). {sigh}

Peace, blessings and solidarity.

Felicia said...

A sista trying to be a Good Samaritan...

http://www.nydailynews.com/news
/ny_crime/2008/10/01/2008-10-01_cousin_15_arrested_in_knifing_
murder_of_.html

"As a good Christian woman, Marva Braithwaite opened her home without hesitation to a prodigal cousin - only to find her kindness repaid in blood-soaked cruelty.
Troubled runaway Tiana Browne, 15, brutally stabbed and slashed Braithwaite's teen daughter to death just two days after finding refuge in the family's Brooklyn apartment, police said Wednesday.


YES, this was the exception. And thankfully so. BUT, unless one enters a situation with their eyes WIDE open - looking for ALL tell-tale signs of a possible negative outcome - one is playing RUSSIAN ROULETTE.

BW need to stay focused on PLAN A.

Beverly said...

The bottom line is that most Black women won't date anything but a black man (I've been there done that and paid the price). Then by the time they figure out that their Black Prince charming ain't never coming they are too old to have kids and they've been beaten down so bad that they believe no other man would want them. Let's tell the truth. This is for all the Black women living in lala-land...

We need to WAKE UP and smell the coffee and stop deluding ourselves. If we want to increase our changes of living well, we better start getting married BEFORE WE HAVE OR ADOPT CHILDREN and it ain't gonna be to black men (at least not for the majority of us). I'll let the census bureau speak.

(source: http://www.census.gov/prod/2003pubs/c2kbr-30.pdf) I took me a LONG time to find this info.

The census said:

While 42 percent of Black
men were now married, just 31
percent of Black women were married
when Census 2000 was taken,[i wonder what 2010 will look like 20%, 10%, 5%--let's just go for broke 1%?] the LOWEST PROPORTION FOR WOMEN OF ANY RACE or origin groups. The 10 percentage-point difference in the percentage of Black men and Black women who were now married was the largest difference between men and women in any of the groups. Factors which might contribute to this difference include higher mortality among men than women, as well as differences in the incidence of intermarriage
with other race/origin
groups. Black men tend to marry
non-Blacks more often than Black
women do, resulting in a larger
population of potential spouses for
Black men. While 10 percent of
married Black men had a spouse
who was of a different race or origin than themselves, this was true for only 5 percent of married
Black women.

My response:

FULL STOP!!! Black men ain't marrying. Only 42 percent of these jokers walk done the aisle and 10% of them who do choose non-black spouses. That only leaves 32% for the rest ya'll. Compare that to other men:

56.8% of WM were currently married in 2000. Let's compare 42% and 56.8%. That's a 16.8% difference!

Now let's compare white women to black women. 53.2% of white women were married in 2000 and 55.8% of Asian women were currently married. Only 31% of black women were married at the time of the 2000 census. That's a 22.2% difference with white women and a 24.8% difference with Asian women. Ladies stop deceiving yourselves about our situation. If we continue to fool around with our undeserving men we are going to become the "untouchable" women who can't get married. If you notice as the number of married women increase so does the economic well being of the women.(The Asian collective is better off financially then everyone in America) Don't be deceived. Marriage works wonders for women's well being.

On another note, the census made a very good point when it said that BM had higher marriage rates because they were dating ALL WOMEN. Ladies if you really want to get married you need to open up your options to other men.

Khadija said...

Felicia and Beverly,

THANK YOU for your "straight-no-chaser" breakdowns of AA women's current reality.

And let me give another round of thanks to Roslyn for raising this topic in her blog post. I'm just piggybacking from her original, excellent discussion. [Which I strongly recommend that everybody check out.]

I KNOW that this conversation is upsetting a LOT of our sisters. I can feel their silent distress while reading.

A lot of AAW have used idealized, fuzzy thoughts of adoption as a way of avoiding dealing with the harsh reality that a successful Plan A (marriage with a suitable, quality man) is NOT compatible with a "nuthin' but a BM" dating strategy. For all of the reasons that have been discussed ad infinitum on various blogs.

I hate to snatch yet another mental "security blanket" out of my sisters' arms, but I want BW to win! NOT to see BW get caught up in difficult, painful lives that they never anticipated would be the end result of the "nuthin' but a BM" dating strategy.

So, I'm truly sorry that this conversation is causing distress, but everybody needs to be clear about the realities of these various scenarios. I and various commenters like Felicia, Beverly, and others want BW to win!-

Peace, blessings and solidarity.

Evia said...

Khadija, one of your commenters said she'd considered adopting a 2 year and apparently thought a child that age hadn't been damaged already. Well, child psychologists know that a LOT of damage may have already occurred by that age, depending on that child's situation--like whether there was emotional and physical neglect (which are typical) and various types of abuse (also typical). Those children can't talk about it, but they WILL "act" it out later. I'd advise anyone who wants to adopt to study human developmental psychology. MOST of the damage USUALLY occurs in those very early years.

I have a friend who took the 2 little infant girls from a crack-addict mom right after the mother had them, while they were still in the hospital. These babies were distant relatives of her husband, and they later adopted them. These girls are now 7 and 8 and are doing okay--for the most part. Just hyperactivity (in one) and moderate oppositional behavior in the other. There was an older child--a boy. My friend got him later, but he was about 3 when she got him. He's had problems bonding with her and her husband and he's 10. He's depressed and pulls back--afraid of fully trusting.

If I ever adopted, the child would have to be an infant and I, like my friend, would pick the child up from the hospital. I'd also have to know A LOT about the mother's background, her behavior during the pregnancy etc. because some damage like mild to moderate organic brain damage is irreversible. That doesn't show up until later sometimes.

I've worked with a lot of very young emotionally damaged children who look like every other "normal" child, but these children are on several medications to control their intense anger and ED, depression, ADD, ADHD, ODD, violent spurts, etc. stemming from trauma incurred during those early years and/or incurred during the mother's pregnancy.

I can tell from some of what some commenters are saying here that they don't have any idea what some of these little children are experiencing or have experienced. Many people would NOT be able to handle it if they knew the whole story of some of these children's lives--the way people who work in the system know it. Just imagine having to live everyday the equivalent of being thrown out of a car.

That's why I don't need or want to hear any more horror stories about what's happening among AAs. LOL! I've seen and read enough for several lifetimes. And this is why I'm telling y'all that you're only seeing the tip.

lisa99 said...

If we continue to fool around with our undeserving men we are going to become the "untouchable" women who can't get married.

This is a point I wanted to get back to in some of the earlier comments, but I got busy.

When we were talking about BW's perception in mainstream America, I realize that this is yet another knock against us... one that can increasingly lead to our detriment.

There is a class of BW super-achievers... smart, attractive, talented, competent... and perpetually single. It's that asexual thing I mentioned earlier. A growing segment of American society is beginning to pick up on this... and even if they recognize that DBR black men have a lot to do with this large degree of singleness among black women, men of other races might not necessarily say, "Well, why don't I date these black women myself?" unless more black women show that they are open to being loved, cherished and treasured by non-black men.

This doesn't mean that they must chase or pursue non-black men, but simply be loving, open and feminine around them. Instead, many BW simply retreat into the sexless super-achiever context and choose to "go it alone," including adopting a child.

I think back to a conversation I had with a 60-something WW who was the mother of a WM I dated briefly (we remained friends). This WW, who hadn't interacted much with AAs and lived in an upper-middle class environment in Southern California, asked at the time if I was currently dating. I said that I was, but had not gotten into any serious relationship yet... but I was hoping to change that. She asked if the men were white or black. I said that one was white, and one was black.

Then out of the blue she said, "You know, I was watching Oprah, and there were some very beautiful and intelligent black women there saying that they wanted to get married and couldn't find mates. This seemed to be a big problem for them."

I didn't know what to say, but simply to say that I believed that by being open to all men, that I would marry. But it was interesting to me that this woman, who's rare avenue into black life came from Oprah and me, was very "aware" of this issue, and had likely begun to form her own ideas about it... so imagine this being repeated in the minds of many non-blacks around the country who are getting this picture of BW being "unloved" and "untouchable."

Whether we like it or not, the "wife" role is a revered one in society. (As is the husband one). It is not simply enough to be seen as "mothers," although so many AAs seem to think it is. If black women aren't also being seen as wives, which by nature means being loved, protected, honored and cherished as women, our overall value declines and suffers.

So while people might still "admire" a black woman (like Oprah, Condoleeza, etc.) for her accomplishments, the lack of WIVES among the black female population pushes all of us into the strong yet asexual "box."

lisa99 said...

Part 2 of what I was thinking... then I'm done for a minute! :)

The first time I encountered the never-married BW who adopted situation was when I was in grad school and went to a conference for women in my industry. I work in a very male-dominated industry.

The woman being honored by this group (which was mostly white) happened to be a black woman. She was a true pioneer in this field, and had gained the respect of the (mostly white) men in the field. No one could question that she was excellent at what she did, and that she was deserving of every bit of the respect she had.

Now, she mentioned in her speech that she had adopted a son. The speech had some parts in which she talked about the difficulty of juggling her job and her role as a mother. As she spoke, I noticed that my perception of her had changed... not that I thought less of her, but it bothered me that here was this well-respected, talented woman who was around men all the time, but had no partner.

Now, maybe she didn't want to marry. I don't know. Maybe she was a lesbian. I have no idea -- although our group was very lesbian-friendly and some women brought their female partners to the conference. She didn't seem to have a partner of either gender.

But the general image I felt was of the asexual black woman who worked hard and was "respected" by society, but not "loved." She then gave love to her adopted child, but no one in her peer group was loving her.

Fast forward to now, when I'm reading the BW empowerment blogs and more aware of these images. I remember NBC did a series on Black Women in America, and of course, there was a segment on BW and marriage (or lack of). I remember how one of the BW reporters called herself trying to "save" the series from being totally gloom-and-doom by talking about single BW who were adopting. Again, this didn't sit right with me... the women were getting the children they wanted, but the marriage/partnership issue was STILL not being addressed. It again ended with the idea of the perpetually single, yet accomplished and competent black woman who had to "make do" with a piecework version of family.

Finally, in a local paper on Mother's Day, the feature front page story was on a never-married black woman who adopted two boys. The story didn't touch on the racial aspects of her single status (thank goodness), but it did say that this woman vowed that if she wasn't married by 40, that she would adopt. So she did, she's in her 50s, still never married, but she's being lauded for using her privileged status as a single professional to help her sons.

More people outside the black community are picking up on this, and the image is becoming entrenched. I remember in one of Evia's posts when she told a single BW in her early 30s that people are probably beginning to place her in that "permanent single" box because of the various suggestions they were making to her about making the most of one's life while single, etc... it's a slippery slope, it's a trap, it's a dangerous path to be treading... that's the time when she needs to do MORE to find a quality mate, if she wants to marry, versus stepping back and putting up the white flag of surrender.

Okay, I think I'm done, but I just had a lot to say on this topic. Thanks Khadija for providing a place for this discussion.

Khadija said...

Evia,

You said, "I can tell from some of what some commenters are saying here that they don't have any idea what some of these little children are experiencing or have experienced. Many people would NOT be able to handle it if they knew the whole story of some of these children's lives--the way people who work in the system know it. Just imagine having to live everyday the equivalent of being thrown out of a car."-

Yes, I've heard of situations with toddlers displaying truly bizarrer behaviors in foster/adoptive home:

1-uncontrollable violent tantrums (as in literally smashing their heads into walls);
2-extreme food hoarding (insisting upon maintaining a supply of whatever was just served for breakfast, etc. in their pockets);
3-extreme sexualized behaviors (trying to rub adults' genitals through their clothes, etc.).

I'm not saying that every (or even most) foster child is likely to display these sorts of horror show behaviors. But the possibility exists; and most folks who haven't worked in the system have NO IDEA about any of this. Nor are they prepared to handle something like this when it manifests.

If I was going to adopt, I would want an INFANT as close to straight out of the hospital as possible. And, like you, I would find out as much as possible about the natural parents' personal history (prison? drug use? psychiatric hospitalizations? whatever). For all of the reasons that have been discussed.

You said, That's why I don't need or want to hear any more horror stories about what's happening among AAs. LOL! I've seen and read enough for several lifetimes. And this is why I'm telling y'all that you're only seeing the tip."-

Sad, but true.
_________________________

Lisa99,

You said, "This doesn't mean that they must chase or pursue non-black men, but simply be loving, open and feminine around them. Instead, many BW simply retreat into the sexless super-achiever context and choose to "go it alone," including adopting a child.

...But it was interesting to me that this woman, who's rare avenue into black life came from Oprah and me, was very "aware" of this issue, and had likely begun to form her own ideas about it... so imagine this being repeated in the minds of many non-blacks around the country who are getting this picture of BW being "unloved" and "untouchable."

Whether we like it or not, the "wife" role is a revered one in society. (As is the husband one). It is not simply enough to be seen as "mothers," although so many AAs seem to think it is. If black women aren't also being seen as wives, which by nature means being loved, protected, honored and cherished as women, our overall value declines and suffers.

So while people might still "admire" a black woman (like Oprah, Condoleeza, etc.) for her accomplishments, the lack of WIVES among the black female population pushes all of us into the strong yet asexual "box."
-

Lisa99, this is a CRITICAL point that AA women need to understand! THANK YOU for breaking it down.

Peace, blessings and solidarity.

Khadija said...

Lisa99,

You said, "Now, maybe she didn't want to marry. I don't know. Maybe she was a lesbian. I have no idea -- although our group was very lesbian-friendly and some women brought their female partners to the conference. She didn't seem to have a partner of either gender.

But the general image I felt was of the asexual black woman who worked hard and was "respected" by society, but not "loved." She then gave love to her adopted child, but no one in her peer group was loving her."
(emphasis added)

THIS is an absolute tragedy and disaster. On an individual level and on a group level.

Lisa99, please feel free to share as many thoughts as you like, and don't be bashful about it! Your comments have SIGNIFICANTLY raised the level of this conversation; and I'm truly appreciative of your input!

With your latest comment just above that I quoted in boldface, you've perfectly articulated what I couldn't quite put into words about what's wrong with these scenarios. THANK YOU.

Peace, blessings and solidarity.

Anonymous said...

It's funny that you mention black women being conditioned or poised to become a part of the permament underclass. My girlfriend in TX and I were just discussing how Mexican Americans stick together for the most part. Their populations have eclipsed ours, and because they take care of their own, we could see another large group of Americans who save society's best treats for their own group. Thus, if AA women do not start making better decisions they will be at the bottom of the economic rung and stuck there far into the forseable future.

I love how realistic you are on this topic. AA women better wake up... and soon!

Kay

Khadija said...

An Internet Ike Turner just submitted some comments that I (of course) rejected.

(1) I WON'T give publicity to any Internet Ike Turners or their blogs. The same way I won't give publicity to racist blogs. I'm NOT part of these individuals' public relations machinery.

(2) I have NO interest in wasting my time attempting to dialogue with Internet Ike Turners. It's just a bad-faith, deceptive trick that they use to try to disrupt Black women's blog conversations.

However, I will mention this one question raised by this particular "Ike." Only because I hear similar questions from confused AA women.

The Internet Ike Turner asked, "So what should be done with these children? Do we not give them the chance for a normal lifestyle? I doubt that Foster care would provide that."-

What should be done with these children? BLACK MEN should adopt these children. All of the numbers of good, caring, decent BM should open their hearts and open their homes to these children.

There's NOTHING stopping caring BM from doing this, regardless of their marital status. Since many (if not most) states allow openly gay people to adopt, they don't have problems with single BM adoptive parents.

This is similar to how there's NOTHING stopping BM from supporting scholarships for Black males, or marching in support of other BM, or doing anything else to meet their various needs.

I would expect that those BM bloggers who are genuinely concerned about any of this would use at least a small fraction of their blogging time to recruit other caring BM to adopt these children.
-

With justice in mind.

Khadija said...

Part 1

It occurs to me that I should probably explain something else about the distinctions between the demographics of the children available from foster care as opposed to private agency adoptions.

The odds are NOT at all equal of various child populations ending up in child welfare-related foster care. For many reasons. There are different...let's call them "tracks" for this sort of thing.

First of all, not every hospital ROUTINELY does drug screening of newborns and their mothers. This sort of routine, across the board, drug screening at birth is much more likely to be done at public aid/indigent/charity hospitals.

Guess who is giving birth at the public aid hospitals, and is therefore more likely to be subjected to routine drug screening? You know who...Sheniqua. This is part of the reason why drug-using, White, yuppie mothers are much less likely to be caught up in the child welfare system.

The other factor is that hospital personnel (like everybody else in the real world) make assessments about the people who show up in the emergency room with injured children. If these hospital personnel perceive the parent to be a "normal" person (works for a living, the injured child is clean and looks otherwise well-cared for), they will refrain from calling child welfare if the parent has a borderline plausible explanation for the injury.

NOBODY gives Sheniqua or Ray-Ray the benefit of any doubts. Sheniqua goes to public aid hospitals for her care, which means that Sheniqua and her newborn will be routinely drug screened at birth. Hospital personnel are predisposed to call child welfare on Sheniqua and Ray-Ray.

Middle class and above parents (of all races) are more likely to be given the benefit of any doubts by hospital personnel. Working class non-Black parents who present well (= come off like "normal" people) are more likely to be given the benefit of any doubts.

Also, the sorts of higher-caliber Beckys and Lupes who unload their half-Black babies at birth are more likely to contact private, religious-based social service agencies (mainly Catholic, but sometimes Jewish agencies). They contact these agencies during their pregnancies so the agency is poised to receive their babies shortly after birth.

So, even though these religious agencies also provide service families caught up in child welfare courts, the half-Black INFANTS that they're giving to adoptive parents are NOT involved in the child welfare courts or foster care.

Another thing is that White children transition OUT of foster care MUCH faster than Black children. White children who are taken away from their parents are generally returned to their parent's care (or permanently taken in by relatives) MUCH more quickly.

There are some other things going on within these systems, but you get the idea. The point is that there are different "tracks" for different demographics of children.

C4L said...

I have been reading but not adding much as so much of this I have already realized seeing many AA women in my age group - professional, accomplished and ALONE.

They always had an aura around them of being "unapproachable" on a feminine level. The respect was always there but they were never perceived as objects of desire.

They were and are still waiting for that BM prince one day. One of them will be approaching 50 and hasn't had a serious relationship in more years than I care to mention.

I have experienced the "biting comments" that I who have never lacked for male admirers has been "lucky" to have found someone. Luck! Ha! I made a conscious choice long ago that my first priority was a good man. I did not care what is colour was, it was important that we shared the same values.

Today, I have been married many, many years to the same man, and I still get approached by young and old. Why, not because I am drop-dead gorgeous but because I have never forgot to take care of my appearance and I never step out of the house to going anywhere without looking my best (even in jeans or a t-shirt, I add a cardigan, a bit jewelry, some blush, lipstick and I am good to go).

My husband always said these AAW gave off vibes that they were unapproachable and that they did not "need" a man. He always pointed out there is a big difference between "need" and "wanting to share your life with someone". Too many of us have talked ourselves into the trap of perpetual loneliness.

As for the adoption issue or trying to save people. I experienced this with my younger sibling. I offered to take her in when she was 13 (I was only 24 myself at the time). My mother refused stating she knew how to raise children. Three years later when all the years of being made to feel ugly and unwanted due to her colour finally manifested itself, then my mother wanted me to take her. By this time she was running with a bad crowd and uncontrollable. I refused, stating the same trouble she found there, she would find her and I would not jeopardize my life for such a situation. I felt really bad at the time, but it turned out to be the right decision.

We cannot save everyone, only ourselves. We must put ourselves first or we are dooomed.

Khadija said...

Part 2

For those readers who are budding social policy “wonks,” let me reference some research I ran across on this topic a VERY long time ago. I haven't looked at the current research about this topic, but I doubt that these lopsided ratios have changed very much.

Interested readers can check out the following: Report on Outcomes for Children Who are the Responsibility of the Illinois Department of Children and Family Services, by The Children and Family Research Center, School of Social Work, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, May 15, 1998.

The Children and Family Research Center is an independent research organization created jointly by the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign and the Illinois Department of Children and Family Services to provide an independent evaluation of outcomes for children who are the responsibility of the Department.

Also, the following article by Natalie Pardo, "Losing Their Children: As State Cracks Down on Parents, Black Families Splinter," The Chicago Reporter, Volume 28, Number 1, January 1999, p.7-

"A review of the literature reveals that African-Americans have the highest removal rate of children from their parents' home in Illinois. "African American children comprise only 15% of the children in the general population in the United States, yet they represent 52% of the children in out-of-home care.

Approximately 19% of the child population in Illinois is African American. The percentage of children in substitute care in Illinois who are African American has increased from 66% in FY90 to almost 78% in FY97."


"The percentage of children in substitute care in Illinois who are Caucasian has decreased from 28% in FY90 to 16% in FY97. Illinois has five times as many children of color as Caucasian children in foster care."

"Nationally, the number of children under the age of 18 who were in foster care grew by 15.2% in the United States between 1990 and 1994. The children in out-of-home care in Illinois grew by 98% during this time period, the highest growth rate in the country."

"Seventy-five percent of the foster care caseload growth between 1983 and 1992 occurred in urban areas. Chicago and New York City provided virtually all of the foster care caseload growth in Illinois and New York State. These two urban areas tripled their substitute care populations from 1983 to 1992, while foster care caseloads downstate remained relatively similar to what they had been in 1983."

"The reunification rates, by race show differences." "For the FY90 cohort of children, only 33% of children not returned home were White and 34% were Hispanic. However, 55% of Black children were not returned home.

These differences have increased in recent years with 36% (White children), 50% (Hispanic children), and 68% (Black children) not returned for those entering care in FY92 and 45% (White children), 59% (Hispanic children), and 75% (Black children) not returned for those entering care in FY94."

"White children are reunified 24% more quickly than non-White children when factors such as gender, age, type of placement and number of placements are controlled."

Furthermore, "children in the custody of the Department from the Chicago area are only 60% as likely to be reunified as children from the rest of the state.

The general pattern is that reunification rates are much better for children who live outside of the Chicago area. Since the racial composition of the state is not equally distributed, analysis that shows differences by race or region is likely to show differences in the other."
-

These are Black men's children that they'e been tabulating over the years.

Khadija said...

Anonymous/Kay,

Thank you for your kind words; I truly appreciate it.
______________________

C4L,

Much of what you've raised are some of the underlying reasons why the Flawless conversation was so controversial and heated. I want BW to win! This is why I won't remain silent about anti-winning behaviors.

Peace, blessings and solidarity.

daphne said...

Thanks for the post, Khadija. And thanks to Roslyn, Evia, Felicia, Lisa99, and others for providing valuable insight into this.

I've always considered adoption as an option - not as a single parent (heck to the No!), but after marriage in the event my husband and I were unable to have our own. As you've said before, I believe, "Forewarned is forearmed." And while I realize the focus of the post was around single women choosing adoption as a Plan B, I think what has been shared here is helpful in terms of being circumspect about adoption in general. Thanks again!

lisa99 said...

And thank you Khadija for your kind words!

I don't know much about child welfare/adoption systems, and hadn't really thought about it before now, so I definitely appreciate your explanations of the process in this thread.

Although the single-parent adoption issue was never a serious thought for me, this one has just always struck a chord because of the context surrounding it.

Plus, I think it has fit in well with what Evia and others have frequently said about being marriage-minded and presenting oneself as open and desirous of a quality mate... and not falling into the trap of permanent singleness -- which can happen more quickly than one might think if she listens to misguided folks that talk about focusing on being the best single woman one can be until that God sends that husband to her, instead of encouraging actual real methods to help her marry.

I am thankful that I do look younger than my age (black don't crack, right? ;)), so outsiders have not yet begun to label me as the growing-older perpetual single professional black woman who can't find a man. That's a box that I'm trying to avoid -- even if that perception is false, initial impressions are powerful.

jeanne said...

Khadija, thank you for this post. I read Rosyln's post as well and am grateful that I had the opportunity to read and consider both. Your blog, the comments of other readers, and the other blogs that I've found by reading this blog have given me much food for thought over the past few months.

This particular post made me think about what motherhood means to me, my expectations for the type of life I can have, and my responses based on those expectations.

I never considered adopting or having children out of wedlock. However, I have thought about adopting with my future husband as based on the assumption and/or expectation that I wouldn't find a suitable mate until after I can no longer reproduce.

I'm 35 now but started this thinking at least a decade ago. They are also discussing the CNN adoption article on siditty's blog. On that blog, a 19 year old commenter who spoke about adopting if she finds herself 38 and single.

That comment and this conversation reminded me of the Marianne Williamson quote, "your playing small does not serve the world."
I think your previous post about cultivating our superior traits also speaks to this.

To me all of this means that we need to stop planning to have suboptimal lives. We need to stop planning to raise children alone. We need to stop planning to be single decades into the future. We need to stop adding obstacles to the race that we are running. We need to stop habitually playing small.

On another note, your posts about writing and the need for black women to stop working in helping professions also spoke to me.

Thursday is my last day as a child protective services social worker. I am returning to my previous career, teaching. I do remember the admonition to not teach k-12. However, I am consciously choosing to teach in a middle class, high performing multi-ethnic school while also researching other career options.

blackotome said...

eye opening as usual. One of the main reasons for bw to avoid "plan b" is it won't work. One of my study tracks may lead to me becoming a therapist, and Evia is right, trauma can start in infancy. I saw a story on tv for a dr pushing for "infant care" for at risk babies. He said they could predict at toddler age if these children would grow up to be deliquents.(without intervention)
These single bw are very unlikely to be able to provide the specialized care these children will need. For bw who must do something they should research charities/organizations that can provide care and donate or volunteer.
Also from the bw empowerment bloggers I've learned to question everything bw are encouraged to do. Especially when no other group is being asked to do it. Why aren't upper middle class families with the resources to afford therapy being asked to take these children in?
I myself, may adopt if it turns out my husband and I are unable to have children. But I have a lot more help,my husband, my mother & father,etc.

Felicia said...

"What should be done with these children? BLACK MEN should adopt these children. All of the numbers of good, caring, decent BM should open their hearts and open their homes to these children.

There's NOTHING stopping caring BM from doing this, regardless of their marital status. Since many (if not most) states allow openly gay people to adopt, they don't have problems with single BM adoptive parents.

This is similar to how there's NOTHING stopping BM from supporting scholarships for Black males, or marching in support of other BM, or doing anything else to meet their various needs.

I would expect that those BM bloggers who are genuinely concerned about any of this would use at least a small fraction of their blogging time to recruit other caring BM to adopt these children."


RIGHT. These legions of good black men out there can "help a brotha out".

By George I think you've got it Khadija! The solution has been right under everyone's noses.

Since it's the "brotha's" who are responsible for fathering all of these black and half black children available for adoption to begin with.

It makes PERFECT sense for these good black men to step up to the plate and adopt these children.

Especially since they currently have a higher marriage rate than BW.

They have extra help. And Heaven knows it's HARD work raising a child. Especially one who's experienced God knows what before hand.

As for BW, sistas need to STAY focused on PLAN A.

Great solution to the riddle Khadija!

Anonymous said...

Khadija, thank you so much for this post. I know I am late to the comment party, but I was trying to not respond.

When I read the CNN article, I was hot. It was because, like lisa99 stated, such articles present black women as being asexual. This makes dating outside the race harder. It attacks the one type of black woman that men outside the race would find acceptable - attractive, professional and intelligent. These articles are like hit jobs - don't look at that black woman as wife material because she's not interested in getting married, she's only interested in being a mother.

As a 37-year-old black woman who has never been married and never had children, I can tell you that the pressure to have children as a black woman is real. In fact, it is assumed that I have children. As in, one of the first questions that I am asked by members of every race is "So, how many children do you have?" When I reply, "I've never been married," you should see the blank looks on their faces. A single black woman gets no credit for not having any out of wedlock children because it is assumed that she is a single mother. Therefore, those men who do not want to date single mothers (a lot), do not even look at black women. It's all about perception, not truth.

I have also reached the point where I am being encouraged to give up my goal of being married. At church I was labeled "desperate" by a married woman with two kids and a grandchild because I openly stated that I wanted to get married. And she's not the only one. It is almost taboo to say that you want to get married in the black community. How crazy is that?

I've received the most support with my marriage goal through black women empowerment blogs and my older sister. Everyone else is just like be happy with where you are.

Big Sis, by the way, is all on the you-need-to-marry-a-non-US-man tip. Both my sisters are happily married to foreigners.

These messages that are put out for single black women - don't look for a man because that is desperate, buy a house because you'll never get married, have a plan to adopt a child - all of these are traps.

I'm gonna stop now. Thanks for all that you write and do.

Evia said...

Also from the bw empowerment bloggers I've learned to question everything bw are encouraged to do.

Girl! You've made me HAPPY! If I've played any part in your learning to QUESTION EVERYTHING as an AA woman, then I feel I have succeeded way beyond my expectations. If we can just get a lot more AA women to do just that much, can you imagine how much better off they would all be? That would cause them to start thinking more critically when people start answering their questions with self-serving jibberish. The fact is that most people won't be able to answer most of those questions in a sensible way or without showing some part of their ulterior motives.

For ex., do you see how Khadija dealt with the ITT who asked her about black kids in foster care. In her response, she questioned why he was asking her or bw the question by redirecting the focus of the question to bm. She threw the ball back in his court and pretty much told him to ask bm the same question. That was one of those "bw must save alla our people" questions he was asking and many AA women would have automatically tried to come up with an answer for how bw could do a better job at it because MANY bw believe that it is the bw's job to save alla our people. LOL!

Aphrodite said...

Anon,

I am so sorry. I guess that goes back to a previous discussion about being selective about who you help. Your heart was in the right place and I am so sorry you got burned financially.



Beverly,

Thank you so much for providing those stats. I am trying so hard not to cry. Between those and the 82% OOW rate - Khadija is right- I am in distress! LOL


It is just mindblowing to me. I heard the warnings of the permanent underclass, and Evia's "mate out or die", but those are truly the only logical conclusions that one can arrive at looking at these cold facts.

ActsofFaithBlog said...

I think I'd better clarify that OOW rate since I was debating this with another blogger earlier. She had said she'd read the CDC report that came out in March but I think she misread it. In 2006 it was 70% for 2007 it's 72%. The growth rate is between 2.5-5% depending on which section you're reading and I'm not a statistician. So I probably overestimated. Of course the report is a preliminary one and it's still their estimate. So whether they've over or under reported I don't know. It may be as low as 76% or as high as 82%. I want to be as accurate as possible of course I'm not sure if arguing over percentages is even the point. The point is that it is INCREASING. I don't want to start making stuff up but this other blogger was so darn insistent and she's a real stickler for details. So maybe an expert can weigh in on this? I actually emailed the CDC to give me an answer of their best guess for 2009. We'll see if they respond to me. But I think THIS needs to be put on POLITICAL FRONT-BURNER. I mean if the gremlin Lil Wayne just created 3 more kids in one year there's no telling how many OOW births there are. They only count what info they're given. Te only thing I'm 100% certain of is that I have NOT contributed to this!!

Aphrodite said...

"At church I was labeled "desperate" by a married woman with two kids and a grandchild because I openly stated that I wanted to get married."


This is so inverted. I would think that piecing together a single family would be seen as desperate ...

Wow. And in church no less.

When I read these posts I go through so many emotions bc I had the desperate label hurled at me so much in my early youth. I can remember as early as my late teens being heart sick to death and people labeling me as "desperate" telling me that I am "better" than that.



Now I wonder had I had the coaching then, not had to go through the DBRBMs, avoiding the damage/pain/baggage that comes along with that and having to sift/sort/feel my way through - where would I be now?


I can relate to the being thought of as abnormal for wanting companionship/marriage.


And for a while I bought it hook line and sinker. I never considered the adoption angle, but I have had many self convos about it being ok that I would be educated and accomplished, but single forever - such as the models presented. And it is painful to admit that I even thought that.

Khadija said...

Daphne,

You're welcome!
____________________

Jeanne,

Thank you for your kind words about the blog; I truly appreciate it. You said, "To me all of this means that we need to stop planning to have suboptimal lives. We need to stop planning to raise children alone. We need to stop planning to be single decades into the future. We need to stop adding obstacles to the race that we are running. We need to stop habitually playing small."-

EXACTLY!

Congratulations on your escape into a better working environment! Onward and forward!
________________________

Blackotome,

You said, "Also from the bw empowerment bloggers I've learned to question everything bw are encouraged to do. Especially when no other group is being asked to do it."(emphasis added)-

As Evia mentioned in her reply, THIS is a critical point! Any behavior, any trend that is being promoted to AA women that is out of step with EVERY other group of people on this planet needs to be carefully scrutinized!

And most likely needs to be REJECTED because it's probably dysfunctional! That's why NOBODY ELSE is doing it.
-
________________________

Felicia,

You said, "By George I think you've got it Khadija! The solution has been right under everyone's noses.

Since it's the "brotha's" who are responsible for fathering all of these black and half black children available for adoption to begin with. It makes PERFECT sense for these good black men to step up to the plate and adopt these children.

Especially since they currently have a higher marriage rate than BW. They have extra help. And Heaven knows it's HARD work raising a child. Especially one who's experienced God knows what before hand.

As for BW, sistas need to STAY focused on PLAN A.

Great solution to the riddle Khadija!"
-

Yes, Felicia, the solution to this extremely perplexing riddle has been hidden in plain sight for all these years! I'm so happy that I stumbled across it.
_________________________

Anonymous,

You're welcome! Please feel free to add a comment to any discussion at any time. There's no "expiration date" for the matters that are discussed here.
__________________________

Evia,

Yes, since "Ike" and his brethren are soooo concerned about the fate of Black folks, I expect him to immediately step up to the plate and begin organizing BM to rescue all these other BM's children from foster care. With a quickness, since he's so concerned about it.
_________________________

Faith,

AAs need to stop tripping and pull their heads out of the sand. It is common social science knowledge that the actual rates of negative social indicators are typically HIGHER than whatever is being reported.

Like you said, the point is that the OOW percentage of AA births is INCREASING.
___________________

Aphrodite,

The VAST MAJORITY of us were/are in The Matrix. Be happy that you're waking up to certain things in your youth. I stumbled out of the Matrix as a middle-aged woman. I praise God that I woke up when I did***I have my health [inshallah--("God willing") and I have an opportunity to change course in life. I've been busy changing course.

I've been reflecting on the peers that I know who died while still within the Matrix (like the colleague I mentioned last year who passed from breast cancer--God rest her soul).

Peace, blessings and solidarity.

Evia said...

When I read the CNN article, I was hot. It was because, like lisa99 stated, such articles present black women as being asexual. This makes dating outside the race harder. It attacks the one type of black woman that men outside the race would find acceptable - attractive, professional and intelligent.

Well to me, it's a matter of THINKING in an uplifting way and PROACTING. Perception IS important, but it's not nearly as important to me as an individual woman what CNN may think about me; what matters to me is what "I" think about me--as an INDIVIDUAL. Let's use the business "product" model. Since "I" know there are many men out there who ARE/would be interested in me (if "I" were available--LOL!), "I" know that all "I" have to do is position myself so that these males can become aware of me--as an INDIVIDUAL woman, see me, and access me. It's like with any other "product." If you advertise it, make it available (distribution), and make it easy for people to access it, any number of people are going to try to get that product because people have different tastes and needs and these tastes and needs are ever-shifting. "I" know "I"'m desirable to a certain percentage of the men in any setting.

So, it's guaranteed that there are a bunch of potentially marriage minded men out there right now who are interested in YOU, and some of them are Quality men who'd be suitable and compatible. How are YOU "marketing" yourself? What exactly are YOU doing to make the men of Quality out there--who are interested in you--aware that you're available to them?

Also, I think that AA women have to be classy about this, but you must become VERY proactive at a much earlier age. It IS mate out or die out time for lots of you. Stop WAITING! What exactly do you have to lose at this point???? There is a lot of difference between chasing a man ( a no-no) and letting a man know that you're available and would like to explore the possibility of having him in your life (YES!) Some AA women are very rigid and proud when it comes to letting a wm, for ex., know they like him but are not too proud to be used as booty call by bm. This is where a lot of re-training needs to occur.

Also, many young AA women (18-26) are voluntarily MISSING a lot of opportunities to secure Quality men. They don't even need to advertise at that age. LOL! It has ALWAYS been the case that very young females have GOBS of mating opportunities, but young upwardly mobile AA women--middle class ones for sure--have been taught to not capitalize on their youthful femininity (their strongest card). AA women of all ages also have other strong cards they're not playing--as we keep mentioning here. But still, we keep talking more about doom and gloom here.

I'm sorry, but I don't think in a doom and gloom way. I think right now that I could quite easily secure a quality man on my level if I were in the market.

BW, we can discuss distractions like this article, OOW percentage points, and endless other ones that will be forever available to distract you, but my question is: how many dates have you had this week? With all of the men in the world who would be interested in you, if you're average looking, reasonably fit, and if you've positioned yourself reasonably well, I ask again: how many dates have you been on this week? We need to swing this focus more on AA women using their cards--using their ASSETS.

I'm talking here ONLY to those AA women who have cut the cord on that "nothing but a bm" type thinking. There are 60% of unmarried, marriageable bm out there. I'd wonder why any of those women would even be at this site or even read my site. I think the "nothing but a bm" type bw needs to find out from those 60% bm men they love so much why those men are not practicing "black MARRIED love" with them. But I'm assuming that the women who come here are open to ALL quality men.

Khadija said...

Evia,

You said, "BW, we can discuss distractions like this article, OOW percentage points, and endless other ones that will be forever available to distract you, but my question is: how many dates have you had this week? With all of the men in the world who would be interested in you, if you're average looking, reasonably fit, and if you've positioned yourself reasonably well, I ask again: how many dates have you been on this week? We need to swing this focus more on AA women using their cards--using their ASSETS."(emphasis added)

I agree. That's why I'm going to get back to my "regular programming" today with a new blog post. I should have another Sojourner's Path post up today.

But I'm very happy that this particular subject came up. This was yet another DEADLY, unquestioned assumption that a lot of us have had in the back of our minds. I can see that a LOT of our sisters have re-examined this notion as a result of these various blog discussions, which is a very good thing.

Peace, blessings and solidarity.

Selena said...

"....Perception IS important, but it's not nearly as important to me as an individual woman what CNN may think about me; what matters to me is what "I" think about me--as an INDIVIDUAL. So, it's guaranteed that there are a bunch of potentially marriage minded men out there right now who are interested in YOU, and some of them are Quality men who'd be suitable and compatible. How are YOU "marketing" yourself? What exactly are YOU doing to make the men of Quality out there--who are interested in you--aware that you're available to them?"


I don't know how much clearer YOU, I, and WE can be.

Well said Evia!

C4L said...

Khadija,

I just read the "Flawless" post. I do happen to live in Europe now and I have been to many European countries. You are correct, you can spot the Americans regardless of colour very quickly due to how so many do not take much effort in their appearance. In the work environment it is also the same, you can pick them out very quickly (unless they are from NYC, they tend to be better dressed for some reason).

When I finished college, I knew that by the time I reached middle age, I wanted to be elegant. I did not have any money when I was in college as I had to work my way through.

But as soon as I had a bit of money, I started investing in my appearance and my health.

The older I have become, the more those early habits have paid off. I do not minimize the amount of sleep I need. I don't smoke, I drink tons of water (no sodas, only tea, and the occasional red wine or espresso) and I have regular facials and the like.

My best return on investment is my investment in me.

I was involved with a man once who would get very upset that I would take the time every morning to dress for work and that meant (and still does), grooming, makeup (luckily nothing heavy) and the like. He stated, "you are with me now, why are you getting made up for work?".

I stated, you are obviously confused, I don't do this for you or any man, I do it for me! Needless to say, that relationship only lasted 18 months and was OVER.

I am THE most important person in MY universe, why would I possibly do anything less than my best for my own personal benefit???

All BW should invest in themselves first, it is truly your best ROI!!!

Delishmish said...

I actually know 2 women who would clearly be included in this study. Both capable of bearing their own children, both insisted on "intimate relations" with DBR BM ONLY, one having had several abortions at "her man's" insistence, and now both with the adopted children of "Ray Ray." (Or S)

It is an unfortunate trend, and frankly gives Ray Ray (and Shenequa) unbridled reasons to continue with their disgusting behaviours. The "fruits of their labors" will now be "picked up" and cared for. In all probability it will be by a woman with good intentions, but who at her core is quite foolish, and has set herself up UNnecessarily to be a mother before she was a wife....this diminishes (notice I said diminishes, not exterminates. There are few absolute situations) her chance of becoming a wife even further. I listened to a coworker (who most consider a fairly vacuous Becky) yesterday when she "trembled out" that she could "never be a single mother. It would be too hard".....Perhaps not so vacuous after all....hmmm

.........................

The below comment was copied and pasted for further discussion:

..................

As Evia mentioned in her reply, THIS is a critical point! Any behavior, any trend that is being promoted to AA women that is out of step with EVERY other group of people on this planet needs to be carefully scrutinized!

And most likely needs to be REJECTED because it's probably dysfunctional! That's why NOBODY ELSE is doing it.-
.............

I fixated on the words "carefully scrutinized." In our country, we have some basic philosophy that we follow. When we are dealing with areas of marriage and procreation (which are fundamental rights necessary to our survival in fact,) there MUST absolutely be a strict scutiny of the situation. Here this means UNLESS there is an NECESSARY and compelling reason to step in and care for those children, then why on earth should certain BW pick up the slack for the State, or more importantly, RR and S.?
To be more clear and as an example, it IS be necessary and compelling to step in and care for an orphan. It is NOT necessary and compelling to step in and mother the likely mentally challenged and low IQ offspring of RR and S...such deficiencies ARISING from a deliberate lack of prenatal health care or systems (ie sperm etc) damaged from years of poor diet and drugs etc, thusly setting the BW up for many YEARS of dealing with the ramifications (of those deficiencies) which further complicate her life.
I am aware that some will think I am cold because of my comments. The hard truth is much simpler than that. I (in a general sense) WILL NOT fill in the gaps for these people because it is NOT MY responsibility. I know RR and S don't want to be real parents, so why not put a "lid" on it. Use birth control for crying out loud or wait until your emotional, physical and mental faculties are at such a level as to be capable of properly giving a child the care they deserve.
Until then...these children will have to be an individual State's "issue" (for lack of a better word at the moment) OR perhaps the thousands and thousands of BM(?) who keep trying to batter the door down here (presumably) to comment on the percieved "misconceptions" about themselves, can immediately step in and begin adopting these children as was suggested earlier......Oh wait a minute...ONLY the black women are doing it..and in such droves as to warrant a study.....The States must be THRILLED to bits.

Delishmish said...

Sorry for the typos..I hope it did not distort the reading through of my post too much.

I am not a great typist (still love to handwrite) BUT I keep trying and can only get better... a hand is not so steady when it was lifting 3 (my limit) champagne filled glasses (to my lovely full lips) the night before...

:-)

and worth every fizzy bubble....

Khadija said...

C4L,

Yep, it's all connected. And it's eye-opening to be in places (like France in particular) where the women have generally NOT had their spirits broken.

It reminds me of how the WW author of He's Just Not That Into You randomly interviewed some French women (WW) about the dating scenarios discussed in her book. The author basically discovered that French women probably didn't need her book. Because NONE of the French women she asked seemed to even comprehend the concept of waiting around on a guy to act interested in them. They were all like: "Next!" LOL!
________________________

Delishmish,

You said, "I listened to a coworker (who most consider a fairly vacuous Becky) yesterday when she "trembled out" that she could "never be a single mother. It would be too hard".....Perhaps not so vacuous after all....hmmm"-

No, other women are generally NOT "vacuous" at all with things that matter, such as marriage and procreation. These other women KNOW. AA women used to KNOW. And then we allowed ourselves to be brainwashed into mass confusion during the 1960s and beyond. You see, we became MORE concerned about the feelings of bastard children and those who were breeding bastard children among us than about our very survival as a people.

Well, look at where are that "understanding" hs gotten us. Into. Permanent. Underclass. Status. As Faith says in her recent post, the author of the Moynihan Report is having the last laugh about the situation. He predicted this outcome 40+ years ago.

Yes, you're right about the State treasuries being happy about this particular destructive idea:

The financial burden of subsidizing Ray-Ray's kids is being transferred from the state budgets (and the general pool of people who work for a living and pay taxes) to the INDIVIDUAL AFRICAN-AMERICAN WOMEN who adopt these (often defective) children.

And yes, the Internet Ike Turners who are so preoccupied with our conversations need to dedicate themselves to a new mission. A mission to save the entire Black race. A true mission for TRUE men!

Their mission, if they would only choose to be manly men enough to accept it, is to GO RESCUE RAY-RAY'S KIDS OUT OF FOSTER CARE!!!

They especially need to go help some young Black males out out by adopting them.

They need to go save some young Black males from becoming a so-called "endangered species." Right NOW!

These children have been waiting so long to rescued by these legions of good, decent caring BM! They've been waiting so long to have some positive brothas in their lives. I just know that these manly men will answer the sobs and cries of these suffering Black children by taking them into their hearts and homes.
-

Peace, blessings and solidarity.

PioneerValleyWoman said...

Delishmish:

The hard truth is much simpler than that. I (in a general sense) WILL NOT fill in the gaps for these people because it is NOT MY responsibility. I know RR and S don't want to be real parents, so why not put a "lid" on it. Use birth control for crying out loud or wait until your emotional, physical and mental faculties are at such a level as to be capable of properly giving a child the care they deserve.


My reply:

This is the irony and it ties back into one of Khadija's earlier post about the underclass mindset. RR and S actually believe they are good parents, because they can find a million and one excuses why things are as they are.

Beyond that, RR and S have nothing else that defines them and which they can point to as theirs, beyond having babies, so they will insist upon having them, even when they can't take care of them from any sane and objective standpoint.

Khadija:

These children have been waiting so long to rescued by these legions of good, decent caring BM! They've been waiting so long to have some positive brothas in their lives. I just know that these manly men will answer the sobs and cries of these suffering Black children by taking them into their hearts and homes.-

My reply:

I just love your irony!

The black men who urge black women to do what they won't do are truly ridiculous. They would never do any of it, because they think of the risks and say "no way." Beyond that, they have always exercised their options to date and marry whomever and whenever, which they can exercise long into the future, ie., have a child in their 50s by some young 20-30 something.

Delishmish said...

I am specifically adressing Khadija's comment made July 12th, 1:46pm.....


rofl here....Hey now, you are impinging on MY turf...I thought I was supposed to be the resident "comedienne" around here! (Hands crossed and pouting :-)) Although truth be told, I prefer to be a commenter known for "cutting wit."



One more thing not in jest.

I would not be suprised if I see States offering "incentives" for adopting these kids. A kind of permanent foster care with the BW ultimately financially responsible for EVERYTHING...not just the "cute stages."

Khadija said...

Delishmish and PioneerValleyWoman,

It's only humor and irony because we KNOW these loud-talking, do-nothing Internet Ike Turners are NOT going to do anything. They have not, and will not, do anything to rescue these Black children that they feign concern for.

On a serious and extremely ugly note, we (BW) aren't the only ones who have noticed this. WHITE PEDOPHILES HAVE ALSO FIGURED OUT THAT "IKE" & THE BROTHAS ARE NOT GOING TO RESCUE THESE SUFFERING BLACK CHILDREN. They know that these children will be freely available for THEIR use.This is from Black Voices:

"Cops Say White Dad Pimped Adoptive Black Son for Sex
Posted by Carmen Dixon on Jul 1st 2009 9:00AM
Filed under: News
Comments (103)

When I first saw this headline a few days ago, I didn't know the race of the child who'd been offered up for sex by his adoptive father, Frank Lombard. I felt relief and gratitude that this deviant had been caught and nauseated that anyone would adopt an infant to have an in-house sex slave.

But today, I find out that this perp deliberately sought a black child because he would face less scrutiny in getting his hands on a black infant [warning graphic]:

In the chat transcript, WRAL reports, "F.L." is asked how he got access to a child so young. "Adopted," he replied and said that the process was "not so hard ... esp (sic) for a black boy."
-

In the chat, "F.L." told [Det. Timothy] Palchak that abusing the child was "easier when he was too young to know what was happening and when he couldn't talk. ...He had a little too much Benadryl. Was knocked out." Source: Cops: Duke Official Offered Adopted Son for Sex, FBI Nab Frank Mccorkle Lombard in Internet Sting, CBS 13

This horror of a case plays into every suspicion, reluctance and skepticism of those us of concerned about cross-racial adoptions. Of course, on its face, it's not a rational apprehension.

Certainly, headlines and Department of Child and Family services offices are filled with biological and same-race adoptive and foster parents abusing children in their care.

But those of us who understand how insidious racism can be are cognizant of, and worry about, the possibility that white adoptive parents may have less-than-wholesome motives for adopting a black child."
(emphasis added).

The pedophiles (including the White ones) KNOW that RAY-RAY'S kids are up for grabs and are available for them, since Ray-Ray is clogging up social services with his seed. The pedophiles also KNOW that these legions of concerned, caring, decent BM are NOT coming to get Ray-Ray's kids.

These Internet Ike Turners need to go adopt Ray-Ray's kids; and rescue these suffering Black children from being available for White pedophiles to adopt!-

Peace, blessings and solidarity.

Delishmish said...

Ladies,.it is a beautiful Sunday afternoon here on "Planet X," and I have just returned from the Farmers Market (highly recommend them) and I purchased the MOST delicious fruit ...PLUOTS...(a "man culled mixture" of a plum and an apricot I believe...just delicious) and newly discovered by me BECAUSE I took the chance and tried "something new"...lol

OK..back to the topic at hand before I return to the many pleasures of a Sunday...

Oh yes Khadija...we KNOW that MOST of these shiftless (love that word) Negroes will NEVER step in...they are ALL mouth..and once again, even those foolish women who DO in fact step in (although NOT their responsibility)are women of action and not merely mouth (albeit for a foolish action, in my opinion)..It is not what you say in life that is important, it is what you DO..here on Khadija's blog I am mighty mouthy (at times) BUT in my real life (ie the one that counts,) I am all about action, less lip. I "DO," not "SAY," and I certainly try NOT to DO foolish things.

PVW...Yep...that is exactly it. I was (OH NO..another story) in line at a Legal Seafoods in Boston (strange city that one..so racially segregated) and "Shen" was behind me. She screamed out a comment and I believed she was speaking to me. I trembled (lol) and a thousand thoughts went through my head as I contemplated "Oh my word, this stranger wants to fight me, but why????? and why meeeeeeeee?" I turned around slowly and I said (with a conviction I did not truly feel) "Are you talking to me?" She hissed her teeth and said "No" with a lot of attitude and head swiveling (her compatriot joined in.) It pissed them off to no end that I was not a rough one like them. Anyway, it was only when I turned around that I realized there was a tiny tottering toddler she had been speaking to. The words she used were not repeatable, and the child looked bewildered and scared. It made me so mad that this "woman" would speak to her child (any child) that way. I got my clam chowder, but as I left I leaned down and said "hello little one" in a very gentle tone...while her "mother" dragged her roughly up. I know she did not want me speaking to the toddler. sigh... This woman consciously or subconsciously wants her child to experience all the hurt and disarray SHE herself experienced as a child. That is her revenge..but it is wholly misplaced.

As for that creature in North Carolina (I believe he worked at Duke U.) the gay white pedophile...he is just another DBR person preying on an innocent child. He is the worst most vile kind of entity AND he just made it a whole lot harder for NORMAL gay people (who obviously ARE NOT pedophiles) to adopt...but if Ray Ray places no value on his children, then one such as this creature will ALSO place no value, beyond that of his own despicable, unnatural sexual desires.

And on that note....

"Ladies"....(small nod of the head)...

Evia said...

As Evia mentioned in her reply, THIS is a critical point! Any behavior, any trend that is being promoted to AA women that is out of step with EVERY other group of people on this planet needs to be carefully scrutinized!

And most likely needs to be REJECTED because it's probably dysfunctional! That's why NOBODY ELSE is doing it.-


Delish, Khadija made this particular comment, but I agree totally with it. Why are AA women asked or expected to do things that no other group of women in the world are expected to do? Well, it wouldn't matter to me because I wouldn't do ANYTHING that women in other groups don't customarily do. "Ain't I a Woman?"

And in the animal kindgom (and humans are animals)it is GUARANTEED that other males ARE going to prey on and destroy Ray-Ray's children if they can, and females are NOT going to be able to stop it. Females CANNOT stop predatory males from preying. This is why I warn bw about the various types of Ray-Rays (DBRs) and to stay away from them. That's all I can do because I KNOW that once the child is born, nothing I can do will stop the predators. I have met many of the prey in the course of my work. The white NC predator is the same as many of the black predators. Predators come in ALL skin shades. Let me tell y'all: to a child, it doesn't matter what skin shade/race the predator is. Look at it from the child's standpoint. It's grown black folks who will more than likely give the black predator a pass. The pain and damaged inflicted on the child is the SAME. If only the children could talk publicly . . .

PioneerValleyWoman said...

Delishmish:

Oh yes Khadija...we KNOW that MOST of these shiftless (love that word) Negroes will NEVER step in...they are ALL mouth..and once again, even those foolish women who DO in fact step in (although NOT their responsibility)are women of action and not merely mouth (albeit for a foolish action, in my opinion)..It is not what you say in life that is important, it is what you DO..here on Khadija's blog I am mighty mouthy (at times) BUT in my real life (ie the one that counts,) I am all about action, less lip. I "DO," not "SAY," and I certainly try NOT to DO foolish things.

My reply:

And don't forget, that for many of the IITs and the Rs, the problems of out of wedlock pregnancies and the problems of black children are not black men's problems, they are the problems of black women exclusively.

How else is there such a high out of wedlock pregnancy rate, if not the result of men believing spilling their seed and having children is not their responsibility, and women going along with it by acting as though out of wedlock pregnancy is a-okay?

Khadija said...

Ladies,

And if you have the mental energy to wade through some confusion, just look at some of the comments that Faith had to deal with regarding her latest post about the "Raising Him Alone" conference {shudder}. [Her blog is listed on my side bar. It's Acts of Faith in Love and Life.]

Peace, blessings and solidarity.

LorMarie said...

"If you notice as the number of married women increase so does the economic well being of the women.(The Asian collective is better off financially then everyone in America) Don't be deceived. Marriage works wonders for women's well being."

Wow. I would not be surprised if there were emotional benefits as well. Admittedly, I'm still struggling with the "fear of marriage." In my mid-20's, I decided that I didn't want to be married. Here I am at 35 and I'm still hesitant about the whole marriage thing. It may be due to the fact that I pay too much attention to the negatives. My biggest fear is getting married to a man who cheats. Not even white men are immune to that. I think, why get married if I know I'll divorce a guy if he cheats? Then I read things like the comment above and it causes me to believe that marriage may not be so bad after all. I guess I'd better hurry up and decide.

lisa99 said...

LorMarie,

Sure, I'm worried about a man cheating, about divorce and all that jazz.

At the same time, I believe it is very damaging to make decisions out of FEAR. When I was wavering on marriage a while back, I realized that it was because I FEARED the bad stuff and the supposed loss of freedom that I'd experience. I never looked at what I would gain, or the fact that I really do want to be in a committed relationship with one man for the rest of my life.

If that's what I wanted, then why should fear of the unknown stop me from pursuing it?

Just something to think about as you work to resolve this issue for yourself! Good luck!

ak said...

Evia:

Why are AA women asked or expected to do things that no other group of women in the world are expected to do? Well, it wouldn't matter to me because I wouldn't do ANYTHING that women in other groups don't customarily do. "Ain't I a Woman?"


Exactly Evia. This is how I intend to be from now on. No mule-ishness for me. I am a woman.

These good bruthas had better come and adopt these kids themselves!

Beverly said...

Hey Khadija,

I've been following the conversation these past few days and just nodding in agreement; but something just shook me out to the core. I was reading through some the comments and thought about an old friend of mine from childhood who had a baby out of wedlock (but eventually married the father). I didn't keep up with her; but suddenly today she sent me a facebook message. I was shocked to say the least and happy to reconnect with an old friend. We are the same age, well she's one year older than me. Well, when I accepted her facebook friendship, her relationship status was no longer married; but complicated and she had a total of SIX KIDS. Not only that; but she was morbidly obese and I couldn't even recognize her anymore. I actually broke down and cried. Our lives had taken such different turns. I choose to wait till marriage to have children (which hasn't happened) and she choose to have an out of wedlock child; but eventually did marry the father. When I saw her it just was living proof that being a "triple burden bearer" is a losing battle. If you don't marry well, or if you have out of wedlock births you are putting yourself at risk. Sometimes we don't realize how small choices impact the entire trajectory of our lives.

Khadija said...

Beverly,

Yes, it can be extremely disturbing and downright frightening to see what could have been "there but for the grace of God."

You said, "Sometimes we don't realize how small choices impact the entire trajectory of our lives."-

When AA women fail to make a consistent HABIT of acting in their own best interests, disaster is right around the corner.

Choices are "small" when looked at one way. When looked at another way, they're not small at all. Choices made during each minute create results that last for hours, days, months and years. These minute-by-minute choices eventually add up to create a LIFETIME.

One scary pattern that most people have is that they're not even actively making choices. They are mindlessly repeating whatever habits that they've formed. Withouth thinking about where these everyday habits are leading them. Habits like:

-drinking water everyday or subsisting only on pop (err,... that's "soda" for you non-Chicagoans--LOL!);
-eating fast food everyday or as a rare occurrence;
-doing some form of exercise most days or not;
-smoking or not;
-being a people-pleaser most of time or thinking for yourself;
-setting aside time for yourself or giving all your attention to others; etc.

Peace, blessings and solidarity.

Felicia said...

The current discussion/debate over at WAOD reminded me again of Lisa99's statement...

"I also agree that the more we push to have "our stories" told through the mainstream media, the more sad, pathetic and asexual we will appear. We "think" these stories are showing us in a positive fashion -- us saving poor unwanted babies -- but instead, we're being seen as undateable, unloveable, damaged goods. These stories do NOT present an overall positive and empowering image of black women AT ALL."

There are certain commenters at that site who are showing professional BW in a VERY sad, pathetic, and totally ASEXUAL light.

The good thing is, those commenters with common sense (and who realize those outside of the "bc" are also reading these discussions of coming to their own conclusions) are in the majority there.

Thank God.

As for me I'm through "presenting my case". I've provided research, the findings, and the numbers.

I have no doubt that those BW who are TRULY interested in improving their lives - and the lives of their future children - will take head of reality. And act accordingly on their own behalf.

I just want to THANK you again Khadija for keeping the trolls, ikes, ikettes, and those whose SOLE purpose for commenting is to obfuscate OUT of the discussions.

Khadija said...

Felicia,

You're welcome; and THANK YOU for taking the time to convey a true word to those who were/are willing to listen.

You know, the patterns that these conversations often take would be comical if we weren't discussing the demise of our ethnic group:

Person A makes a common sense statement such as, "It's bad to call your mother a b****. It's terrible that now almost 80% of AAs call their mother a b****. We should stop doing that. Nobody else on the planet (or in human history) is calling their mothers b-words in such large numbers."-

And then all the naysayers come rushing in with STALE, FAILED rhetoric. They rush in to debate and argue with Person A. They say things like:

"You're being simplistic in calling for Black people to stop calling their mothers b******. Before you can tell AAs to stop calling their mothers b-words, you have to 'understand' and 'acknowledge' ALL of the 'REAL' reasons why they call their mother the b-word...

...AAs call their mothers b-words because they don't have jobs! AAs CAN'T stop calling their mothers b-words until there's full employment for Black folks!

...The welfare system makes AAs call their mothers b-words. It's the welfare system's fault for paying recipients 5 pennies more per month if they call their mothers b-words.

...I grew up calling my mother "b," and I turned out okay. My friend never called her mother "b," and she got pregnant in high school. So you can't say that it's always a bad thing to call your mother a b.

...Studies say that some people who call their mother "b" turn out just fine.

...Studies say that some people who don't call their mother "b" have problems.

...We shouldn't victimize the AAs who call their mothers b-words. We need to understand their point of view. How are we ever going to reach these people if we say that it's BAD to call your mother a b?"
-

An on and on it goes. As if normal human beings would require any explanation (much less an explanation WITH citations to social science research) of why calling one's own mother a "b" is a very bad thing. Like this idea is controversial. It's only controversial among savages. People who've lost all comprehension of civilized life.

So-called "cave men" and "primative" peoples knew better than to do what AAs are currently doing.

Like I said, it's almost comical in its own way. And it shows just how far out of touch with HUMAN norms most of our people are.

[Let me get this off my chest about the welfare excuse:

I doubt that the requirements for welfare changed very much from the 1930s through the 1960s. These programs were always designed for mothers who didn't have a male provider. However, the anticipated reason for the male provider's absence were things like DEATH and TOTAL PHYSICAL DISABILITY. Not ABANDONMENT.

So, I doubt that the programs changed that much in terms of refusing to pay out when there were (able-bodied) men in the homes. What changed was the caliber of our people. And it changed for the worse. Old-school AA men were DEEPLY offended by the very thought of their wives and children accepting "charity" from anybody.

To their dying days, there was always a SNEER in my older male relatives' voices whenever the concept of "accepting charity" came up. And to them, welfare = "accepting charity." And the idea of somebody ELSE having to provide for their wives and children was SHAMEFUL. A DISGRACE. And these were men who were children during the Great Depression. They KNEW what hunger was about.

So, the issue wasn't/isn't the requirements for receiving welfare. The issue was/is "What kind of 'man' WANTS to have his woman and children on welfare? What kind of male will permit such?"]

Peace, blessings and solidarity.

Felicia said...

Ditto EVERY LAST WORD you said Khadija.

At fist I wondered if it was a good thing for all of this dirty laundry (ABC dysfunctionality) to be aired like this. But the more I think about it, it's actually GOOD that the readers (inside AND outside of the "bc") can see for themselves that all BW DO NOT think alike. We all can't be painted with the same dysfunctional brush.

Salvagable BW in the silent reading audience are for once hearing the ABC blacks CHALLENGED and backed up against the wall. Salvagable BW are realizing - pehaps for the first time - they've been hoodwinked and fed deadly LIES from the "bc" and they don't have to be victims anymore.

There are absolute GEMS from the majority - sans two hopelessly lost to the Matrix - that are must reads.

The below gem was especially telling.

Knockoutchick said...

I don’t think Black men not supporting their children or families can be solely traced back to lack of work. Or the end of the manufacturing era…it is much deeper than that. And I do believe that even if these men did have funds they still would not support their families.

What we are experiencing in the black community is a complete break down of our value system. No moral code or set of values are being passed down from father to son…because there are few strong capable male role models in our community.

At this point we are 40 years into this cycle, so we are two or three generations removed from those who had core values that would sustain and grow a community.

I for one cannot understand how a grown healthy adult male living in a free capitalist society can say he can not provide for his kids. Many BM are delusional and have been made to believe they should only work for a certain wage. So when some working class BM I know say there are “no jobs”…they mean no high paying union or skilled labor positions.

I live in New York city, if I had multiple OOW kids I would go to Costco buy bottled water at a 10 cents a piece and sell them for a dollar in Central Park, outside stadiums, etc. Sell cut fruit on the corner…and so on. You CAN make money in this city poor Mexican and central American men do it every day and they have wives and families that all live on the small salaries they make.

No one I know looks down upon them…in fact I have great respect for the sacrifices they are willing to make for their families.

The day of high paid skilled labor is over. In New York on construction sites, in large markets, restuarants, even fast food joints that used to have large numbers of young black male employees almost all have been replaced by Mexican and Central Americans.

It seems to me just basic knowledge about hard work, common sense about how to climb the social ladder to provide for the next generation is completely gone.

These men haven’t had the elders to explain to them why selling water on the corner is not “beneath” them. That supporting ones family should supercede one’s pride.

I’m not saying this is a career course but 4 Mexicans will sell flowers on the corner together until they get enough money to pool to open up a flower stand and so on and so on.

In the black community we no longer understand the basics of living..we’re just surviving.

lisa99 said...

@Felicia

That post by Knockoutchick was amazing!

I don't even have children, but when I've found myself in slight financial binds, I have gotten to the street and hustled! Granted, my "hustles" have been somewhat less painful because of my education and college background, but still, I've beaten the bush and done some part-time work (like handing out samples at stores on weekends, etc.) to pick up a quick $100 for a day or something like that.

So if it got to the point where I needed to sell water on the street to support my kids, you better believe I would do it! In fact, when I see people doing that, I try to buy a bottle of water from them because I appreciate what they are trying to do and I want to support that.

There is something wrong when certain able-bodied BM won't try every possible effort to take care of their children, when men of other groups and WOMEN are willing to do the most menial work if it means that food is on the table for their kids to eat.

cool_splash1 said...

Claud Anderson predicated that black people will be a permanent black underclass (his focus was business)if we didn't get our ish straight. Sounds like it's showing signs that it's coming.

cool_splash1 said...

Do we really want to be considered untouchables like the untouchables of India ?(from what I learned from one guy that really has a historical context because these people rebelled. May or may not be true)think about how long these people have been considered the underclass. These people are still working to get out of that class.

Khadija said...

Cool_splash1,

You said, "Claud Anderson predicated that black people will be a permanent black underclass (his focus was business)if we didn't get our ish straight. Sounds like it's showing signs that it's coming."-

Oh yes, I first found out about this emerging permanent underclass situation from hearing an interview with Dr. Claud Anderson on the local Black-owned talk radio station. This was about 10-15 YEARS ago! And, unfortunately, AAs' descent into permanent underclass status is progressing like clockwork. Just as he predicted over a decade ago.

I strongly recommend 2 of his books: Black Labor, White Wealth and PowerNomics. Dr. Anderson tried to do some sort of Black business corridor development project with the city of Detroit a few years back. [The same way other ethnic groups have shops and restaurants concentrated in their areas, such as in "Chinatowns," etc.]

Given the incompetence of local Negro politicians, the project didn't go through. I don't recall the exact details of why it fell through, but I recall forming the impression (after having read some media reports) that the local politicians wanted to conduct business in an extremely unprofessional manner.

Well...people who are serious don't like to get involved in jack-leg, boot-leg mess. And so the planned "Black-town" (or whatever they were going to call it) business corridor project fell through. Hmmph!

Peace, blessings and solidarity.

cool_splash1 said...

Given the incompetence of local Negro politicians, the project didn't go through. I don't recall the exact details of why it fell through, but I recall forming the impression (after having read some media reports) that the local politicians wanted to conduct business in an extremely unprofessional manner.

These idiots and yes they are idiots said that it was racist. Black politicans opposed it and used the we are black people and even we oppose this kind of crap. It's funny because AA's wanted it. Anyways these politicians especially one black woman can't remember her name and don't want to claimed it was racist to make something like Africa Town. Also claimed that the Chinese and others didn't set out to make Chinatown, Koreatown, Greektown etc. it just happened. Well with the knowledge of black history and blacks in America this black woman and the others should have known better.

Frankly (as I have told others)if someone wants to do something like this it's going to have to be on the DL(not to be mistaken for the other DL)

What killed this plan was it was aobut helping black people gain economic power.

Khadija said...

Cool_splash1,

Oh yeah, you're right. I had forgotten about the Negro politicians who were afraid to look as if they were supporting economic development for Black people. [Imagine that!] What I did vaguely remember was the local politicians somehow messing up with some of the money involved. Either they failed to make a necessary deposit on the land involved, or did something else of that nature.

You're right---those sorts of projects (the type that would actually help our people over the long run) HAVE to be done in secrecy. Hmmph.

Thanks, you've given me an idea for the next post. It'll discuss some points made by one of the newsletters from Dr. Anderson's think tank.

Peace, blessings and solidarity.

Lorraine said...

Dipping my fingertips into cold water because this is indeed HOT! Not lol.....

I am so enjoying the sorority as we are like minded on the bottom line here, but the dissension from bw on the other blogs is a reality slap in the face. I am going to chalk it up to such an internalized denial and indoctrination that rational thought is nowhere in the equation.

I see the examples that some of the ladies are speaking of their own family members who have succumbed to the single motherhood by choice is basically ok. Forget the consequences to the child, forget the consequences to our community, and forget the consequences to your own mental health and even physical well being because of the hardships that come with this job.

Being a mother is the best job I have ever held as I absolutely love being a mommy (and being pregnant). Even in the best of circumstances, two loving, welcoming and waiting eager parents it can be scary. I can't imagine what a young teenager suffering from the Maury Povich Syndrome (drama, abandonment from the father ---- if she knows who he is, the ridicule and slew of insults and abuse and utter foolishness) has to endure. I was so overwhelmed from being a new mom that my husband after working a full day would come home, kiss me and take the baby so I could take a little break.

Again, that is one of the best of circumstances. There is no talk of that with women who choose to be single mothers. NO being married doesn't guarantee that this will happen either, but if you have vetted your mate wisely, it is more likely.

I am just flummoxed by these women who fail to realize their own failures and perpetuate the cycle. But, I am too in the mindset of trying to save the women and girls who want to hear the message and take the advice to escape this madness and not get caught up in the first place. No, we can't save everyone but some do hear. Anyone one wanting to disparage positive sisters trying to steer our young girls in a positive directions (for their/our own good) are dangerous and should be avoided. It is useless to waste precious time on them.

Khadija said...

Lorraine,

You said, "I am so enjoying the sorority as we are like minded on the bottom line here, but the dissension from bw on the other blogs is a reality slap in the face. I am going to chalk it up to such an internalized denial and indoctrination that rational thought is nowhere in the equation."-

I think that there are several overlapping things going on with this series of discussions across various BW's blogs.

In our various personal and online "safe houses" of sanity, it's easy to forget just how INSANE the masses of AAs are. The conversations at Faith's blog and WAOD about the Raising Him Alone travesty and related issues of single parenting give a more accurate snapshot of the level of madness that exists.

This blog is a "safe house" only to the degree that I insist upon maintaining a high level of security. That means that I'm NOT interested in encouraging OPPONENTS to hang out and squat here.

My issue isn't dissent. There are several frequent commenters and other bloggers that visit here that I have HUGE areas of permanent disagreement with.

[For just one example, Felicia and I have different and fundamentally opposed views about so-called "biracials." However, we can both co-exist here because we support the same bottom line premise and goal---the idea that AA women and girls are ENTITLED to live safe, rewarding and fulfilling lives that include wholesome marriage and family life for those who want it.]

And as has occurred at times (most recently with the Open Letter to BW Who Publicly State That They Would Never Date/Marry Outside The Race post), I AM willing to engage commenters who disagree with the strategies I feel that BW can use to secure safe and fulfilling lives.

What I am NOT willing to do is:

(1) Debate the very premise and goals of this blog (that AA women and girls are ENTITLED to live safe, rewarding and fulfilling lives that include wholesome marriage and family life for those who want it)
.

[Incidentally, this is the "standing for justice" that I talk about in the blog masthead. Justice means that the most aggrieved persons are tended to FIRST. Right now, Black women and girls are the most aggrieved people on this planet. This is because BW and girls are generally not protected or provided for to the extent of other women. Look at the ongoing MASS rapes in several African countries, etc.

And because I believe that charity begins at home, I'm focused on tending to the most aggrieved people in this country---who are AA women and girls.]

Khadija said...

Part 2

(2) I REFUSE to convene town hall meetings for people who are OPPONENTS of the very premise and goals of this blog. This category includes Internet Ike Turners, Ikettes, and assorted other types of trolls.

Progressive people tend to be extremely naive about their opponents' agendas.

When somebody is implacably OPPOSED to 95%+ of your premises and goals, that person is not a "contrarian." THEY ARE AN OPPONENT. And they have NO good faith reason for squatting in the middle of your safe house.
They're not squatting in the middle of your safe house to communicate with anybody.

They're there to disrupt your program! They're there to discourage and confuse the people seeking shelter there! They're actively trying to turn away the people who are seeking shelter there. They're squatting there, spreading their DISINFORMATION campaign, to DESTROY your work!

Your "safe house" is NOT safe with an enemy recruiter setting up shop in the middle of it!
Since they are implacably opposed to 95%+ of the basic premise AND work that's being done at the safe house, what productive reason could they possibly have for hanging around there?!! As far as I'm concerned, there is none.

I understand the concerns that progressive bloggers have about avoiding "groupthink." The safeguard against groupthink is to find comrades in arms who agree with the defining premise and goal of one's work, but hold differing views about the various means to achieving that premise and goal.

Trying to use an enemy recruiter as a safeguard against groupthink and "the fan club effect" does NOT work in the long run. The enemy recruiter inevitably does more damage (through their active sabotage of one's work) than they are worth
.

All of this matters because this is not the high school debate team. We're discussing life and death matters regarding AA women and girls.

Peace, blessings and solidarity.

Rita said...

Khadija and Evia,
Thank you SO very much for all the excellent work you do in presenting your perspective on all the issues you alert us to. I, too, was alarmed to see SBW adopting being put out there like it was something to aspire to be. When I read the article on CNN.com, there was no mention of the possibility of marrying a man of a different ethnicity. But I distinctly recall a woman stating something like how she did everything right-got educated,career, takes care of herself,etc-- and has been praying to the Lord to send her a husband. I thought to myself, her husband might not be Black. Peace & blessings --Rita

Khadija said...

Rita,

Thank you for your kind words; I truly appreciate it.

Peace, blessings and solidarity.